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[–]quickbeam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The ACLU ain't what it used to be. I'm a leftist, but I'm a leftist who believes in freedom of speech and freedom to report or take pictures in public.

[–]72ndGender 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Do you think that you might be a liberal and not a leftist? Not a neoliberal either. Those guys aren't even slightly liberal anymore.

[–]quickbeam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm a leftist. A Bernie-crat if you will. I'm either with Bernie or slightly to the left of him on pretty much every issue. And it's not like I followed Bernie to these positions. He just came along and spoke all the stuff I already believed and I fell in love politically as a result. I'm almost a free speech absolutist and a civil libertarian in most ways. I used to believe in 2nd amendment rights, but that has eroded with the uptick in mass shootings and the realization that the government will always have the people outgunned and most of the people stockpiling guns aren't using them to stand up to the government in meaningful ways anyhow. I'm also a big believer in a strong social safety network and massive government programs to solve issues like climate change. I very much believe in getting money out of politics which the "neoliberal"/"corporate" wing of the party seems to have no interest in doing. I engage in more debates than I really ought to given that life is short.

[–]72ndGender 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah, that sounds like you are a leftist. Just decided to support one aspect of libertarianism. Which is the reason you are and I are here. Regardless of our political beliefs, we believe in freedom of speech. Potentially the most important human right there is. Many of your fellow leftist absolutely hate freedom of speech. They see it as an impediment to their success and dominance. I'm not aware of Bernie supporting it either. Am I ignorant on that one?

[–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

To the best of my knowledge Bernie Sanders supports freedom of speech pretty unequivocally. I think in campaigning within the party he had to adopt some of the woke speak to get by, but he was criticized heavily by woke types for not swallowing it all wholesale, for things like touting the Rogan semi-endorsement, etc. Bernie's an economic leftist, which is how I orient.

I don't think the left has any kind of monopoly on not being in favor of free speech though. When I was growing up I was basically socially "canceled" for being vocally in support of gay rights. Right wing religious types to this day engage in censorship of books and public art, infringe on religious freedom both by forcing Christianity on people and by trying to get Muslims not to dress as their faith demands, attempt to silence doctors especially when it comes to abortion information, try to erase climate science from government organizations, and the free press is threatened by people across the political spectrum who have economic or political interests in silencing them.

So I think that while the left may hold the most obvious cancel culture cards at the moment in terms of visible culture wars, there are insidious threats to freedom of speech waged by the right as well, that usually affect people like whistle-blowers, journalists, scientists and members of minority religious groups. I'm not okay with any of it.

[–]72ndGender 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I grew up with right wingers controlling speech a lot like the left controls it now. Neither side cares about free speech, but they only complain with the restrictions affect them personally. Right wingers sound libertarian now only because they are the most restricted at the moment. But, like you said, they want to control speech too. Not sure if I agree with all of your examples, but it's a fact that they do the same stuff to a lesser degree.

Left wingers were the more libertarian group when I growing up. Which is why I just stick to libertarian ideology and don't try to align with the left/right stuff.

[–]72ndGender 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Did some research and it looks like Bernie has a clear history of supporting free speech. Even the attempts to shame his desire to break up media monopolies are such a half-assed claim that he wants to end free speech. If Bernie didn't want to destroy our country with immigrants, I would be a fan of his. I don't mind socialism, I just recognize that an infinite stream of leeches can never be supported by a socialist system without perpetual foreign wars for economic expansion. Ya know, everything we have been doing since the fed was established and social programs developed.