all 40 comments

[–]Tom_Bombadil 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (10 children)

There's plenty of Socialism in the US and Americans actually love it. Unfortunately, they don't recognize it when they see it.

Some examples of socialism in the US:

  • Public highways and roads
  • Medicare
  • water treatment
  • Electricity
  • Natural gas
  • Sewers and
  • Social Security
  • Fire departments
  • Police departments
  • Public Education
  • National parks, state parks, etc.
  • And many others

Many of these could be improved, however overall they are very successful programs.

Socialist programs are routinely sabotaged by private interests who prioritize personal profits ahead of the society. The US post office is a great example of a socialist program that was sabotaged.

At one time the post office provided banking services. Small loans, check cashing, checking accounts, savings accounts, etc. It operated at just above the cost to operate, and made a small profit which was reinvested to improve services.

The scandalous attack against the post office is an on-going. Congress Is Sabotaging Your Post Office

The state of North Dakota has public banking and it is an exceptionally successful program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota

[–]steaknpotatoes 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Social programs =/= Socialism....quit lying to the ignorant

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Socialism encompassed a broad spectrum of ideas. It's ignorant to dismiss the entire philosophical concept.

The basic concept was predicated on an informed public, and bottom-up democracy.

I'm in favor of positive ideas.

More North Dakota style public banking to dismantle the banking cartels.

Less Stalin and Mao. Their fraudulent style of fake "socialism" was in practice a military coup.

Support bottom up democracy.

Oppose coups.

[–]steaknpotatoes 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Social programs are one thing but socialism is a whole 'nother monster that is about eliminating private ownership of property and choice, a centralization of power and property. Please do not try to conflate regulated capitalism and social programs with outright socialism because we can get into that and it's not gonna be pretty. We can tell the tales of North Korea and Cuba and Cambodia and the USSR and East Germany and all the other atrocities that socialists induced.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Do you actually believe it's an either/or scenario?

[–]Jesus 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

More North Dakota style public banking to dismantle the banking cartels.

Yes!!!

[–]Tigerbitecrazy 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

How TF does no one get this? Thank you for posting a legitimate response instead of the drivel we get from left/right sources

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Gracias! :-D

We're all inundated with Propaganda (from both sides), and it's easy to lose sight of the actual facts.

Both sides have decent arguments, some social policies are no-brainiers. Most are complex.

Also, welcome to the party. Send your friends here to join the fray! ;-)

[–]Tigerbitecrazy 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

With insightful people like you helping to lead the way through the mounds of BS, I don't see any reason not to.

[–]Velocity 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Americans love socialism? That's why they're fleeing socialist leaning states right? No one fall for this tripe. You are conflagrating basic public services with a mediocre economic ideology that steals 60% or more of your hard earned money to redistribute to those less productive than you as it slowly stifles innovation and turns you into a de facto ward of the state with increasingly dwindling civil rights. Humans innately tend towards corruption, socialism increases govt power centralizing and emboldening this corruption.

Studying history will give you the truth and reveal people who espouse socialism as daydreaming fools who have learned nothing from history.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are conflagrating basic public services...

Did you really create a new account to attempt to shill with this nonsense bullshit on your first comment??

You're congratulating your own credibility.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

CIA needs to stop couping them

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

lol. Socialists are a bunch of chickens and CIA is Fox

~Cooping XD

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

[–]steaknpotatoes 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

"The goal of socialism is communism." - Vladimir Lenin

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (15 children)

Lenin's goal was dominance and dictatorship, which is neither socialism nor communism.

The former Soviet states were socialist in name only.

[–]Zahn 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

Provide evidence for your claim that the USSR wasn't "real socialism".

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (13 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterized by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management of enterprise

Did the workers have ownership of the means of production?
No. The "communist" party leaders controlled the resources and means of production. It was a top-down system of control. The workers were in control of nothing.

Were they self-managed?
No. Again, it was a top-down dictatorial structure.

The USSR fails both of the two main characterizations.

Weak sophism. ;-)

[–]Zahn 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (12 children)

You don't even know the definition of sophistry. Is this deleted user Tyrdhead? Welcome back if you are. otherwise you're a shill Tom.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

I also agree that sophism doesn't apply to this particular example. But that's cool, cause it doesn't matter Zahn the Sophist.

You thought you had a layup zinger, and you got nothing.

Also, I never left. Fortunately, you can be certain that I'm going to be calling our your self-admitted sophist bullshit for a long time.

The facts are on my side, and you know it.

This will be easy. ;-)

/u/penelope

[–]Zahn 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

Whatever boomer. Nice angle coming in and accusing regular users being shills. That's what first clued me in, that you were accusing others of what you were doing.

Since you're on the DNC payroll, I appreciate you revealing their tactics and talking points so this info can be spread to other forums. You're doing us a great service Tyrdhead. But, on a personal note, really you should go to counseling.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

I see...

So... the DNC now hires people to post 9/11 truth videos about how it was a American and Israeli false flag? Because it was.

9/11 Suspects: Dancing Israelis

Great detective work.

/u/Penelope grab the popcorn. ;-)

[–]Zahn 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

"Hello, fellow alt-politic people".

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Looks like you've given up the debate and now are switching to personal attacks and distraction tactical.

9/11 was an Israeli attack on the US. It's an easily demonstrable fact.

Quite a bit would change, if more Americans understood that Isreal blew up the world trade centers and bombed the Pentagon.

That "Muslim terrorists" had nothing to do with it.

Obviously, the controlled media does everything they can to suppress the facts.

[–]Zahn 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Addendum: this also means that user Froglich is your alt account or underling, as you say. Thanks for the laughs ya absolute mongoloid.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

/u/Penelope where did your boss run off to?

I have a video he should watch. 9/11 Suspects: Dancing Israelis

You were probably aware and said nothing, huh?

Sounds like you're on the side that is helping with the Israeli cover-up.

Quite a bit would change, if more Americans understood that Isreal blew up the world trade centers and bombed the Pentagon.

That "Muslim terrorists" had nothing to do with it.

[–]Zahn 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Yes Tyrd I've been aware of this since you were still guzzling the MSM kool aid.

[–]zyxzevn 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Europe had been doing fine, until all the immigrants were invading.
Pushed by Soros, Israel and the US.

We even have/had a functional democracy, until the EU system became lobby based.

Note: I can not see the website, probably because it wants to track my personal data for NSA (Google) and CIA (Facebook).
Note2: All successful US companies are monopolies sponsored by the state.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Socialism is how you have an Army, a Navy, the Marines, an Air Force, NASA, the Space Force, CIA, FBI, NSA, Homeland Security, Guantanamo Bay, endless perpetual wars, governments that deny you health care yet force a police state upon you with an excessive prison industrial complex, Big Pharma industrial complex, disaster capitalism, and now surveillance capitalism.

You can't have capitalism without the socialism safety net for the powers that be. They will let all of it crumble - except the government, their banks, and their military/police.

Too big to fail is socialism that means you're too small to succceed.

[–]nygal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Americans hate freedom with a passion.

[–]nygal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Americans used to fight Commies and Nazis, but now have become Commies and Nazis.

Americans scream that trade wars are good and then are stunned when prices rise and exports fall.

Americans are so batshit insane now that they demand regulations and then are shocked when prices rise and the economy dies.

When the regulations and trade wars kill the economy, Americans demand welfare and bailouts, but do not have the mental capacity to understand why taxes increase.

Americans insist there must be wars, but then Americans are surprised that wars lead to debt, refugees, tyranny, and terrorism.

Americans say Obama was an evil asshole for supporting wars, debt, and tyranny, but then turn around and say Trump is a holy god for embracing wars, debt, and the police state.

Americans want everything to be illegal, but are dumbfounded that crime increases and prisons become overcrowded.

[–]nygal[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Americans have become control freaks now, but never think that you know what is best for others.

If you think immorality is wonderful now and churches should be banned, you might find out later that morality is good and homosexuality should be outlawed.

Americans used to think smoking was safe and marijuana was dangerous, but now Americans insist smoking is dangerous and weed is safe.

Americans are simply unable to understand that laws have unintended consequences.

Americans scream declawing cats should be illegal, but how did the US survive for over 200 years without this law? Can't you educate others about the dangers of declawing cats? Won't cats be killed when declawing is banned because no one will adopt cats who kill birds and destroy furniture?

Americans say toothbrushes must be banned to protect the environment, but what will you say when your teeth decay?

Do Americans know that the US used to love freedom and hate Nazis and Commies? Do Americans feel like hypocrites now?

Do Americans realize that the elites will use Socialism to kill off the 99%? Do Americans understand that anyone who supports the ruling powers today is a traitor?

Do Americans have the mental capacity to understand that tyranny killed millions of people in Nazi Germany, the USSR, and Cambodia?

Do you realize China used to tell people to have kids and when China became overpopulated, China had a one child policy?

Was anarchy responsible for killing fields, gulags, and concentration camps?

Do anarchists have air forces that bomb civilians?

Do anarchists kill businesses with regulations?

Think.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

According to John Stossel. Nough said.

[–]nygal[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Americans seem to have forgotten their history and have tunnel vision about the past.

Conservatives think the US never had black people before today.

Liberals think the US always had food stamps.

Americans insist everybody worked for free when there was no minimum wage.

Americans think the USA always had TSA groping.

Americans say everyone died when there were no seatbelt laws.

Americans believe North Korea is successful because they have closed borders.

Americans think either that the USA is the country with the most freedom in the world or think that the US was always a police state.

[–]nygal[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The government has made everything worse.

US wars and sanctions have just increased terrorism, refugees, debt, and tyranny.

Now Americans must carry bags around everywhere because plastic bags are illegal.

Student loans just drive up tuition.

Regulations have killed the economy.

Welfare makes people lazy.

You are not allowed to carry around cash or deposit less than $10,000 into your own bank account.

Being homeless or living in a tiny home is illegal.

You'll be groped by the TSA if you travel.

You'll be tracked by license plate readers if you drive.

You'll be wiretapped by the NSA if you use a phone.

WTF?

[–]nygal[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Americans scream welfare makes people wealthy, but what if welfare makes people lazy and raises taxes?

If the government gives you welfare, couldn't the government take the benefits away if you protest tyranny?

Did Americans just sit around and starve to death in 1920 when there were no food stamps?

If the elites are trying to push Socialism on Americans to make Americans weak and dependent, wouldn't those who support tyranny be traitors?

Did tyranny kill millions of people in the USSR, Nazi Germany, and Cambodia?