Tulsi Gabbard's attorney states in legal filing against Hillary Clinton: "She has never experienced, does not currently experience, and does not expect to experience, thoughts of suicide."

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

lol, after that long post that I typed; you still don't get it. The internet is so interesting, all this participation yet still so much bias (I wonder if its because politics is involved?)!

I'll have to break it down point by point. Hopefully, it'll do the trick; but I am essentially repeating myself. And if only you could read or understand between the lines.

chaos magick doesn't necessarily have to be used for political purposes, or for nefariously manipulating reality unbeknownst to the majority

Except it is. Everything ends up being political as long as hierarchies and bureaucracies of power are centralized, Its kind of moot. Even the theory of splitting an atom was turned into a political powerhouse, people hunting and gathering- politics is involved. Fishing in a river- politics is involved. Art and design- politics gets involved etc. etc. There is not one thing that is popular that politics will not get involved in; despite the idealistic notion that it doesn't have to be that way. The path to that involves not having centralized power with a top down hierarchical system with agencies going rogue at convenience to cement their standing.

Thoth is often associated with wisdom, truth and record-keeping, but he was also associated with art, magic and science - so I'm not sure what you mean here

You forgot one thing, Thoth was also involved in justice as an incorruptible judge of the dead. Its why the heart was weighed against a feather, to determine purity as a ritual.

it could be used for literally any purpose, including spreading light, positivity and the truth. Just because the majority call it "chaos magic", doesn't mean it results in or relates with chaos in negative way - some refer to it as "success magic" or "neo-western occultism".

I appreciate the idealistic notions of neutrality, but it is no defense against the "results" of chaos or success magic. If you really wanted to be neutral, thou wouldn't seek to "control" chaos in an "own" way. If things go out of hand then than the hands will also go out of their way! See ya around kid.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

If you really wanted to be neutral, thou wouldn't seek to "control" chaos in an "own" way. If things go out of hand then than the hands will also go out of their way!

So you're basically saying using it alone, for any purpose, is wrong. Life is chaos to some - don't get too caught up in that word, some could argue chaos and freedom (or free-will) are synonymous. I understood your original post, but don't understand the reasoning behind your following posts; if you're going to using the political angle as your argument, where you said this:

Everything ends up being political as long as hierarchies and bureaucracies of power are centralized, Its kind of moot. Even the theory of splitting an atom was turned into a political powerhouse, people hunting and gathering- politics is involved. Fishing in a river- politics is involved. Art and design- politics gets involved etc. etc.

Wouldn't breathing be political too, since those who breathe run and are involved in political institutions and those who don't, don't? So should we just stop breathing and let things be, because things do get more fucky, complex and complicated when humans continue to breathe, develop and get involved?

Its why the heart was weighed against a feather, to determine purity as a ritual.

I don't see what purity has to do with this, as "chaos magick" can be very personal and again, doesn't have to be "chaotic in nature" or involve non-pure intention - whoever is "practicing" could borrow beliefs from any school of thought; "Hellenism", or the modern worship of a Greek God as a Tutelary Diety is becoming very popular. At the core of all "chaos magick", is using "personal belief" as a "magickal tool". In some aspects, it almost follows the "fake-it-'till-you-make-it" philosophy, with one's personal flavor of "esoteric belief" added in. It's more in vein of an expansion pack to "The Secret" than any other real hardcore occult stuff.

"The Secret is based on the belief of the law of attraction, which claims that thoughts can change a person's life directly."

That's the focus of "chaos magick" - believing, basically in one's self and their ideal reality or intentions, and their ability to change reality through their belief, not "chaos". This is all usually on a small scale, and again, for personally, positively improving one's life. "Chaos" in it's typical definition of the word doesn't have to be involved. Sometimes Sigils with the user's intent are put into them and are used to help channel their belief/intent. I don't see what's so inherently negative, not pure, or dangerous about this? Sure it could be used for negative reasons, but so could any other tool.

Like you said your self, this isn't too different from art - An incredibly popular and influential artist could inject messages into their art of their own volition (propaganda, not necessarily political in origin, maybe spiritual?), and alter their reality on a mass scale without having "practiced any magick at all", as to them, they were just creating art and adding their personal beliefs into it.

Also, just in case you didn't see me mention it, it's like not like I actively believe or practice this stuff, I have read about it though and do find it interesting. It's like the case of the chicken and the egg; does you believing your belief and intent as well as whatever philosophy/occult practices you subscribe to change your reality, actually change your reality, or is it the fact that you've adopted a new mind-set and maybe also physically set-out to manifest your "new reality", that's changed it? The obvious answer seems like it would be the latter, but there's interesting scenarios where it seems like it's the former once you look into them.

My favorite (and imo, the most interesting) "occultist", is John Dee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4juXgHIZ6E

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You misunderstood the context of my argument to begin with. There is no need to type so much lol.

So you're basically saying using it alone, for any purpose, is wrong.

Nope, not at all. I'm saying that elitists or wanna-be elitists (like the loose example: alt-right) who utilize chaos magic to influence world events and end up committing crimes- will be judged by the very same scale they throw out of balance inevitably. That is the hidden danger in all this because the effect of it will snow-ball. Case in point: pepe! (Wasn't really a coincidence).

Wouldn't breathing be political too, since those who breathe run and are involved in political institutions and those who don't, don't? So should we just stop breathing and let things be, because things do get more fucky, complex and complicated when humans continue to breathe, develop and get involved?

I... what. huh? Let me clarify these posts since they are prone to misunderstanding and expanding needlessly:

Breathing is political because elitist douches can mess up the air, forcing generations of people to be predisposed to diseases down the road. Do you think those industries are practicing chaos magick or science magick? Marketing, Engineering, Design, social control, Power and hierarchy? The answer is yes.

The rest of the topic seems irrelevant since the basis of my argument was: evil idiots utilizing some sort of magic in the wrong way to achieve political ends; and the masses that fall for the trap and get hurt. I don't care if anyone wants to believe in magic or practice it since it barely holds up to the mantle of real fact and reasoning since the only trick is how our primitive brains are predisposed to its "shiny" effects.

However, crimes shall always go to court! :)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You misunderstood the context of my argument to begin with. There is no need to type so much lol.

Well, actually there is when I'm trying to understand/have a discussion with you, and you're being purposefully vague and ambiguous with what you mean, asking me to read in-between the lines as if I know you, while you keep deleting your accounts so I have no idea where you're coming from/stand, and you write so little while being so vague.

From the very beginning, before you responded to me, when I was discussing chaos-magick, I stated I wasn't discussing the pepe-kek scenario (but found some of the coincidences interesting or fun). You were still hung up on that pepe topic lol. So now I do understand, we were having two different conversations.

"May I ask, what do you have against chaos-magick?"

"What would thoth have against chaos magick?

(Rhetorical question)"

That's ambiguous af, and I was simply asking what you had against this "practice of magick" that really isn't too different from The Secret, a thought tool, or psychological tool that basically follows the "fake-it-'till-you-make-it" philosophy, when used to improve one's personal life. You continued going down the political and purity angle despite my side of the conversation being clear, which is what I did not understand.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was simply asking what you had against this "practice of magick" that really isn't too different from The Secret, a thought tool, or psychological tool that basically follows the "fake-it-'till-you-make-it" philosophy, when used to improve one's personal life. You continued going down the political and purity angle despite my side of the conversation being clear, which is what I did not understand.

Well, I do understand your side of the conversation but, the basis of my argument (which is antithetical) still remains the same. The political-purity angle isn't the cornerstone of it, it is the ideological-subjective component in chaos magick or "the secret" which is what makes it so dangerous due to its ephemeral and irrational nature appealing to our faulty wiring in perception; thus distorting clear minded thinking both for the subject and the masses by a magician. I only utilized that political-purity angle as a way to argue-within the ideology, of warnings that were placed there-in; whom the practitioners have to adhere to (thoth).

But as it stands, chaos magick and the secret is a subjective tool of confusion and misdirection. Its why it is also exploited by politicians upon the citizenry to fool them into subservience. Same thing with magic tricks, there is no magic; just tricks. (Kek/Pepe)

The magic is all you! But none of it is real.

Same thing with "coincidences" and "conspiracy plots"- a hidden hand, but no magic.

Now I'd rather not keep repeating myself on this topic because its getting to be a dead horse, but if none of this makes sense; then I'll guess you just have to figure it out yourself over time. Good luck!