A man who was a lifelong Democrat until a few years ago: "Look, the left has been taken over by control freaks and radicals. The moderate liberals are just trying to get along but the hard left is calling the shots now and they don't give a rat's ass about virtue - they want to conquer."

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[–]Chipit[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

This man really spoke a lot of common sense and shed some light on some things I've been wondering about for a long time.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Breh its the same thing for the alt-right. Human bias has reached an epitome of ignorance within the political spectrum and is doomed to spiral out of control in the near future.

But whatever this person has said about one side, probably applies very well to the other if you think about it.

[–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

The alt-right hasn't taken over anyone. They are a voice in the wilderness, they have no university professorships, no NGOs, no positions at thinktanks or the State Department.

It's not a "both sides" argument. Both sides don't control Hollywood and the media we consume.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Yep! A True Voice in the wild!

:)

[–]Penelope 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

If you're attempting to provide evidence for a point, this linked article is a very weak retort. Basically it says: "alt right is good at using the internet"

Since there is a coordinated effort by silicone valley to delete, suppress, and censor right-wing viewpoints. It would make sense that The so called alt right have become good at the only option available to them in an online context.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, thats not the only link up there. Nice try on the weak retort though...

But hey, if it makes you feel better; you win all the internet points. I'm soon to blow in the wind :)

[–]beermeem 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, there’s maybe like 3 alt right people and memers. I don’t know that alt-right is really a thing in the same sense that the #metoo twittersphere cancel culture is. It’s mostl just a blanket insult name.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

mmhmmm totally! You can try and protect your political brain-child if you must, while nurturing it at your nippled bosom because its so new. But the future will have to be a little less poly-tricks. Just keep in awareness of the totality of whats important, don't get too polarized by putting all your eggs in one basket. You have some time to have some fun within limits.

[–]Penelope 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Buh-bye!

[–]Truth-B-Told 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. Common sense, logic, and the truth seems to have gone missing for some time now.

Following the 'hive' mind is NOT a good thing. Polarization is simply way out of control. Virtue, Hate, or Acting signaling is nonsense.

[–]AnarchySpeach 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

People who know me: You're atheist, pro-choice, and think Bernie wouldn't be that bad. How the hell are you a Republican?

Me: There's nothing wrong with being white. It's not a choice, and as such I feel no guilt for being myself.

Them: HOLY SHIT WHEN DID YOU BECOME A NAZI? WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO YOU?!

Me: Yep... such a mystery. Tail Titler and all that jazz.

[–]DffrntDrmmr 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't watch the video but the statement in the post title I agree with.

Though I'm not a Democrat, I'm a moderate independent that almost always voted for moderate Democrats, but leftwing "control freaks and radicals" are destroying that option.

[–]Spud 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

The "hard left" as seen by many in the highly insular USA, really aren't.

There is a hard left here, but it is nowhere close to where progressives are at right now.

Notice Bernie does not make virtue arguments? Or hardly any?

Look at Warren, Biden, others. They all make them as if they somehow have something in their nature the others do not.

The movement with Bernie is doing a very specific thing not seen in politics here for a long time, and that is making a call for those impacted by economic policy over the last several decades to get involved more directly in the political process.

Quit asking, essentially. I have a sub here /notasking that is about that concept.

Start doing.

Thomas Paine outlined the basis for self governance and where the authority comes from in "Rights of Man" and "Age of Reason."

Basically, we are better able to maximize our personal freedom with governance than without.

When that is no longer true, there is unrest.

Doing it our way means a reasonable transition back closer to that better place.

Or, there is France on Strike, other nations in violence, or another force moves in, etc...

Many moderates are doing OK under these policies. Problem is a majority of the US is not.

So, our answer is to become government and bring better balance.

Had the ruling peeps done better, we would not be here.

Just saying... its more nuanced than often presented.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

Progressive = hard left

a call for those impacted by economic policy over the last several decades to get involved more directly in the political process.

They did. They voted Trump. And you called them Nazis, racists and worse. Don't try to hide it, you made it crystal clear you absolutely despise the American people and the working class in particular.

[–]beermeem 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I guess I'm an old timer but I consider myself basically a progressive. I like equal rights before the law, a reasonable social safety net, and protections for workers. That type of stuff. But I still support capitalism as expressed through our limited Republic. I'm not a federalist. We have individual states for a reason -- to allow for people with different preferences to address local needs.

To me, the hard left are socialists, communists, and, yes, worse, whatever these crazy liberals pushing their insane agendas are -- the anti-freedom antifas, the people pushing sex changes for children, the white people celebrating and pushing for white suicide.

[–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're not progressive, you're not hard left at all. You're an old-fashioned 80s Democrat. The kind I wish we had more of in America. It's hard to try to talk to people who think that being right-wing is morally wrong or a hate crime.

[–]beermeem 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mostly, I disagree with you. But, all in all, I'd be OK with the Reagan-Democrat label.

[–]Spud 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You are right! They did vote Trump!

As for the other things, no. You have me lumped in with some ugly people. Did, and have no plan to do any of those things.

By any reasonable global measure, progressives in the US are nowhere near hard left.

[–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Progressive is a synonym for social justice is a synonym for far left. Identity politics, blaming white males for all problems, anti-working class bigotry, sneering elitism: all hallmarks. I noticed a few years ago that the word "racist" was just a new form of "witch"

"There is something truly dispiriting about not being able to distinguish self-identified radicals from the parodies of us imagined by the right wing."

http://thebaffler.com/latest/flakes-alive

[–]Spud 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah, I hear a lot of that.

Those of us progressives, who are not at all into the emphasis on identity politics, tend to call those people "social justice warriors."

The way I see all that is as an over compensation. And it's not at all good.

Don't get me wrong. I am anti-discrimination. But I am equally anti-fear blame and shame type politics too. Take racism:

One can have two basic conversations along those lines, and one of those is "you are a racist!" Well, great. Now we've got a personal judgement out there, someone speaking to someone elses intent without any real insight to it, and any chance of a reasonable conversation shot to hell quick. Multiply that by a few decades, and yeah. There is a lot of anger, inability to communicate and with those things, basically no understanding others.

Understanding one another is super important, particularly now.

The other conversation avoids most of that and is sort of, "That could come off as racist..." and it's talking about the thing, impacts, not so much the person. And it sure as fuck doesn't doom someone right out of the gate.

What is notable is what can happen after the conversation. When the first one is had, people have to come back from something they may not even have intended in the first place! So, often they just don't. And they sure as hell don't want the ones judging them to be the ones they have to come back to, or admit acceptance or any other damn thing. Divisive, and it's everywhere.

With the second one, people can think it all over. If they make different choices going forward, great! Nobody even has to know. The world can just get better with more people presenting mutual respect and consideration more of the time. So much is organic too. It's not some formal thing, more like more people understanding one another better and with that can do better by one another.

Labels are hard. So many are using them too. Couple that with the fear, shame, blame labels, etc... and it's a mess. Way too many people check out, basically unable to have a nice conversation, or even a solid one, fair etc... so they just don't. Over time, that is all isolating in the democracy sense, and it leads to low turnout, and lots of other artifacts which leave the door open for growing unease, just a higher risk, higher cost, more difficult state of affairs.

There are many who have set aside this "left right" deal to get at things a different way, more focused on ideas, outcomes than people, conformity, blame. Frankly, it's not about what we did before, who we voted for, whatever. It's actually about those things about to happen, those choices we can make tomorrow.

Freedom from illness, or health care as human right are one example. Pretty much everyone, good, bad, whatever, needs to deal with medical things like all humans do. Many nations have sorted this out reasonably. People don't lose homes, go broke, file bankruptcy, nor put off things they should give attention to. It's an entirely different way of thinking. One can be poor, but not unhealthy, for example. Or one can be a small business owner not having to worry about sick people, or premiums pricing good people out of reach.

For that to work, it's gotta be an American conversation. I need to see the doctor, you need to see the doctor, how can we all see the doctor without all this damn carnage going on non stop?

And here's another thing those social justice warriors really don't like very much:

Other people just don't have to be nice, or step up. Gay people, for example, have had the benefit of a great many people standing for them. It's been more normalized and for more of those people, more of the time, in more places, life can be OK to really good. I want it good, to be who I am, others want it to be good, be who they are. Sort of makes sense.

But, that's been extended to some entitlement or other.

YOU HAVE TO DEFEND MY RIGHTS!

Really?

No I don't! I'm an ordinary, straight, white guy. I can absolutely not give a fuck. Now, I will give a fuck because of the above, wanting it good, not living lies, etc... so sure! I'm happy to toss in, carve out a space where more of us can live, laugh, love who we want to, but HAVE TO?

Line too far, if you ask me.

And whether someone agrees with that, and I'm totally open on that conversation, there is an even more galling thing!

That social progress has come at a pretty damn high cost. You've mentioned some of it. Economically, that cost is high too. By moving the focus so strongly toward social only policy, economic policy has not gotten a balanced representation at all.

Again, whether one agrees or not, here's my point:

Those same peeps who DEMAND and say WE MUST, won't lift a fucking finger when it's their turn to step up, take a little heat, do their less fortunate peers a solid. The same damn solid they DEMANDED of others.

I hate that shit.

Viscerally.

Which is why I come back to getting along. Understanding one another better. Where that's going on, I feel most of the issues, both social and economic, will sort out reasonably. That's what democracy does generally.

But when it's abused? It fails, and we've got a mess.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not sure what to make of this ramble. I get the idea you're not "progressive" (i.e. far left) at all.

It simply doesn't matter who you are on the left, the crazies are driving the bus. And they're full of hate for Americans. Do your part to banish them back to whence they came, because they sure as hell don't listen to us. That's what this video is about.

[–]Spud 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I am not going to do anything of the kind. Nobody that matters on the left is hating Americans. Besides, that doesn't really work. Never does.

What does work is being FOR things. Against type politics isn't doing any of us any favors you know.

People generally associated with the Sanders campaign aren't doing or about anything mentioned in the video. Won't be either.

What they are about is getting money out of politics, economic policy that gets right at that majority of Americans struggling right now, and in general, being good humans about it all.

You are right, I'm not far left. I'm left of center by any reasonable, global measure.

I also don't care what your politics are. I do care about advancing that policy, getting ordinary peeps a better scenario to work in / through.

This is all a priority discussion at the core. Do we want to squabble about who hates who, or do we want to make sure people can go see a doctor and do so without losing homes, loved ones, for example, and be around and healthy able to have the hate debate later?

That's a much nicer problem to have, in my view.

[–]Zahn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How much of a role do you see the Federal Reserve having in contributing to many of the economic issues facing the US?

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nobody that matters on the left is hating Americans.

That's the whole point of this video. Everyone who matters on the Left hates Americans. You are apparently a minority so rare as to be unique.

I'd love if reasonable people like you took over the Left and made it sane again. But you've got a lot of work ahead of you. They are pissed off and hurtful and want revenge for voters having the nerve to reject them. Don't talk to me, get out there and fight to get sanity back on your own side.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Doing good is always popular. Starting a war with a 2thousand year old country. That's just special. Locking up a bunch of kids. That's leadership. I just know Bernie won't be pushing this adjenda. It seems enough for me? To say that clearly. Then vote for what you want to have taking care of our sick educating our young adults. Paying a living wage to our workers. You know you got problems when you are so afraid that the guy you chose is a monster. Over the reality the game is rigged voteing is rigged. White House is rigged. And the money is the only voice you ever hear.