all 41 comments

[–]magnora7 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Actually labor made all those things. It wasn't capitalism or communism. Ideological systems don't make hamburgers, machines and people do.

[–]Many_Coconut[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But ideological system motivate people and give them the ability to, as well as the freedom to do. Or not to do. There is a reason why under communism, you had to wait for 10 years for a car you bought on the day. (yes that is a fact, you can look it up.)

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes but it's also true there are millions trapped in literal slavery around the world under capitalism. So I don't think we can really say an "-ism" economic system is the thing that sets us free, perhaps. Maybe I am wrong

[–]Many_Coconut[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. I am not a capitalist (but I much prefer it to communism)
  2. There is slavery, which is beyond horrid. And should be focused on waaaay harder. I am with you 100%.
  3. But that is "just" crime, you will have the same in any system of this world. There is a differnece between a state, ideology etc., not eliminating every evil of this world, and actively creating/supporting it. For all of capitalisms shortcommings, I do not think they are actively supporting it.
  4. By free I did not mean that. As in, I did not suggest that communism literaly enslaves people and sells them on the block. What I meant was that you can open a corporation under capitalism and create a certain type of food. Sell it and make profit You can not do it under communism. The state decides what should be produced and by whom. So "innovation" (which granted, McDonnalds is not really one) is much slower. Indeed, in "perfect communism", innovation would be proportional to a handful of peoples ability to innovate, cause they would control everything. "The state" is always a few people on top: See Mr Winnie the Pooh, for example.

[–]Snow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Many of people won't make hamburgers anymore. Machines will replace them.

[–]WebcomicAddiction 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

"iF yOu UsE soMEthInG YoU CAnt CriTIciSE It"

[–]Only71Genders 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

If you are obsessed with something, then chances are you don't really hate it. Commies are obsessed with materialism. Like how so many incels are obsessed with women, but spend their time shitting on them. Most commies are just mad that they failed at capitalism.

[–]Many_Coconut[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This.

Tim Pool did a great video where he showed the hypocrisy of Communists. That jealousy and laziness is what motives most of them.

[–]WebcomicAddiction 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well maybe. Or maybe its the fact that a ride to the hospital and hospital bills can make them broke. But probably its actually laziness and jealousy.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

biology makes you have to be obsessed with women. commies are obsessed with materialism cuz real world is material, scientific materialism. religion is opiate of the masses and capitalism is religion and you worship an invisible hand.

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think there is a big difference between obsession and desire. I desire women, and as a result, have a bunch of kids. I'm not obsessed with them, since I barely think about them, and don't talk much about them. Same with material things. I appreciate nice stuff, but don't really give a fuck about what I own. I have enough money saved to buy five new trucks, but I hang on to my old one. It works. I could replace my plain clothes with expensive ones, and not have to worry about the cost, but I don't really care about that stuff. I use a cheap ass phone, not an iPhone. I could go on, but don't want to beat a dead horse.

I can accept that maybe I am an exception, but I think anyone can be minimalist if they stopped paying attention to the corporations and media for a damn minute. I agree, they worship materialism like it's a religion. But it still seems like a choice to me.

[–]WebcomicAddiction 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

How does any of that related to criticism of capitalistic system?

Do you actually think that people starve or being poor because they buy 5 trucks?

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm not sure what you are talking about here or where you came up with that weird assumption. I'm talking about not caring about spending money on things I don't need. Not being obsessed with materialism is the point. I've never met anyone complaining about their financial situation that wasn't into buying unnecessary crap. I've never once met a person (obviously I'm talking about the US) that was struggling for money to meet their basic biological needs that wasn't using their money for addictions or needless spending. Obviously they exist, but for the vast majority of people, they have been brainwashed by advertising to believe that they need a bunch of shit that no one needs.

[–]WebcomicAddiction 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not sure what you are talking about here or where you came up with that weird assumption.

Thats not an assumption. You are pretty much saying that its mostly your fault for being poor and that people are poor because they have bad habits about spending money.

Obviously they exist, but for the vast majority of people, they have been brainwashed by advertising to believe that they need a bunch of shit that no one needs.

Well it seems like we are talking about different demographics. But even then, people criticising capitalism and/or following socialistic ideologies because they are "lazy" or whatever the fuck is mostly a strawman argument. Most people who are into socialistic ideologies are young people who are into them cause they see economical inequalities and economical and political crimes committed by elites every day and they believe that socialistic system is way fairer towards working class.

You can talk about how socialistic ideologies "cause" genocides all day long but they will never listen to you if the only arguments you have are "socialism=holodomor=bad" and "you are just lazy" neither will they listen if you arent offering any solutions yourself instead of just repeating things like a parrots.

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thats not an assumption. You are pretty much saying that its mostly your fault for being poor and that people are poor because they have bad habits about spending money

Are you mixing up threads? Honestly, you are weirding me the fuck out. What you're talking about isn't even a subject that anyone was discussing.

Well it seems like we are talking about different demographics

I'm exclusively talking about the US. The rest of the world is substantially different. The rest of what you went on about has literally nothing to do with what I was talking about. I'm legitimately worried about you at this point.

[–]WebcomicAddiction 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you are obsessed with something, then chances are you don't really hate it.

So... i actually like being stabbed? Didnt know this about myself.

Most commies are just mad that they failed at capitalism.

So they secretly desire to abuse political and economical systems for the sake of the profit and at the expense of poor and middle class people?

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So... i actually like being stabbed? Didnt know this about myself

If you are obsessed about wanting to be stabbed, then yes. Clearly the context of the obsession I was talking about was about wanting the stuff. Not being afraid of, or hating it.

So they secretly desire to abuse political and economical systems for the sake of the profit and at the expense of poor and middle class people?

Yes. Literally every single communist I have ever known. Zero exceptions. They also want to rob the upper class people too, but they absolutely need the poor and middles classes for their labor to provide them with what they want.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's more like a lot of us would be more open to what he had to say if he only had the morals to stand up for what he believed in. But no.

Every socialist of any stripe I've ever seen are like this. You'd think if their belief was so strong, they would implement socialism in their own lives. Instead they use the freedoms granted by our system to advocate for those freedoms to be taken away.

[–]WebcomicAddiction 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You'd think if their belief was so strong, they would implement socialism in their own lives.

How the fuck does one "implement socialism into their own lives"?

Instead they use the freedoms granted by our system to advocate for those freedoms to be taken away.

Making means of production a public property=taking away freedoms that allow you to voice your opinion?

[–]Trucker_Joe 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More like, it's not illegal to start or join a commune in Western nations, but where are they and why aren't idiots like this living in one? They want the government to force something on others they aren't willing to do themselves.

[–]BorrowedLadder 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. "You complain about the prison but you eat the prison's food?" This is what you sound like.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

yup great point

this is a pic of a prisoner in the prison cafeteria wearing prison clothes

[–]Only71Genders 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What makes that picture seem prison-like to you? And what would true freedom look like in comparison?

[–]Trucker_Joe 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not illegal to start or join a commune in Western nations, but where are they and why aren't idiots like this living in one? They want the government to force something on others they aren't willing to do themselves.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"No currently living person is morally acceptable. People who aren’t activists reorienting their entire lives around acknowledging and combatting the evils of the world aren’t even on the scale. And people who are such activists are (in the words of one of my friends who is close to that community) "only making comfortable sacrifices that let them think of themselves as a good person within their existing comfortable moral paradigm, instead of confronting the raw terrible truth." IE "If you think you’re one of the good ones, you’re wrong"."

Even if you aren’t an animal rights activist, environmentalist, or labor advocate, do you believe in anything? Are you a Christian, a social justice advocate, or rationalist? Do you know anyone who really satisfies you as being sinless, non-racist, and/or rational? Then perhaps you too believe nobody is good."

http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/16/the-economic-perspective-on-moral-standards/

[–]Vigte 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

But, but, but - it was never real communism, humanity will get it right NEXT time, I'm sure.

[–]happysmash27 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think it was ever "real" communism, but the way things are going, I don't actually think the next time humanity will get it right either.

[–]Vigte 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. It really is a "utopian" vision - an Eden where everyone shares, no one has ego (thus greed), even to a certain degree: individuality and of course it magically over-comes certain motivational issues:

A capitalist sees a person walk into their store: "Great, a chance to grow...".

The communist sees a person walk into their store: "Great, more work...".

A utopian ideal - countered by fundamental human issues that just aren't going away any time soon.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

statement of fact, and also need to stop sabotaging socialism

[–]Vigte 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Given historical facts, it's not a risk I'd be willing to promote for my country (and by extension my family and self).

[–]critias 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

why do you hate death, bigot?

[–]Vigte 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Gawd, I'm so sorry! I'll read more Marx and check myself into the closest SJW conversion camp.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Nice shirt, I'll give you $10 for it.

[–]happysmash27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

At least it's not that gold-plated copy of The Communist Manifesto or paying to visit Karl Marx's grave. Those are super ironic!

If you consider China "communist", by the way, the phone would probably be partially a result of communism, but I do not consider China to be communist in the vast majority of respects myself.

One can say, that "there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism", but I do think that eating at a massive chain restaurant in what looks like a mall is a bit egregious in not going with anti-capitalist ideals.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If Capitalism was made of capital; instead of debt.

[–]Many_Coconut[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

nice start, but it needs a finish. Sentence is not complete.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If irony were made of iron, he'd be crushed under the weight of it...

If Capitalism was made of capital; instead of debt. People wouldn't be debt slaves, and the banksters wouldn't rule the world.

Capitalism in it's current form is a system of debt slavery.

[–]go1dfish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not necessarily ironic.

Consider the situation where you lived in an oppressive communist regime. Would you eat your rations, or starve?

In both cases, the individual believes themselves to be somewhat of a prisoner in an environment not of their choosing.

[–]Many_Coconut[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But he can choose, he can go to North Korea, a person from North Korea can not choose to go to an other country.

Also, he could go to a less ... capitalist ... food outlet than McDonnalds, which is considered a symbol of capitalism (to a degree).

Also, no need for them evil capitalist smarthphones etc.

[–]triguntester 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a pretty hardcore capitalist and this a bad argument. If you live in a certain system you are forced to abide by the rules of that system, even if you don't want to.

That being said I do think the obsessive consumerism of the elites and trust fund kids that parrot left-wing ideologies is hypocritical. You don't NEED a new iphone. You don't NEED to watch the newest movie. You can get your products from companies that don't abuse human rights. It doesn't take that much effort to consume a little less and do your research to support ethical companies. All the tools to cut your economics ties with these massive megacorporations are THERE, commies just ignore them and decide to do nothing.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the rich just allow us a little freedom cuz they're afraid we rise up with revolution and sweep them away and institute socialism, which has happened in history