Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

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[–][deleted]  (10 children)

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    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    Then why are there still so many crimes all overall?

    Crime has been dropping overall https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    It's reported to have been dropping, what's more likely is police are under-reporting crime to make their precincts look good, because their funding is tied to that metric.

    Also our prison population is at an all-time world high, both in raw numbers and per-capita. That's not a success story. Especially when recidivism rates are so high because our system doesn't rehabilitate, just punish.

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    what's more likely is police are under-reporting crime to make their precincts look good.

    What makes that more likely?

    Also our prison population is at an all-time world high, both in raw numbers and per-capita.

    That doesn't mean crime is higher.

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Having a world record prison population doesn't mean we have a record number of criminals? Then why are they in prison?

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    The idea that prison population and crime rates relate is only theoretical. It could also be due to changes in sentencing guidelines, and that the privatization of prisons having created an economic motivation to fill prisons, including the bribing of judges, aka "kids for cash".

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    In response to what you said, let me repeat something you said earlier.

    What will the pedophiles say when they come for their gigabytes of cp? What will the pill pushers say when their supply lines are cut? What will the murderers say when they're placed at the scene by cell records? Who will think of the criminals???

    Now you're "thinking of the criminals" just like you were making fun of someone else for doing at the start of this discussion. So I don't even know what we're talking about anymore since you're basically taking the inverse stance you were taking at the start.

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I'm sorry but you're not making sense to me. Bigger population in prisons does not prove more crime has occurred, as you asserted. There are other plausible explanations. I also have no cause to believe that police suddenly decided to under report crime during the past thirty years.

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    What I mean is the start of this conversation was

    What will supporters of the police state say when their beloved police come to arrest them for racist hate speech, to confiscate their guns, and to force them to board trains headed to the concentration camps?

    And then you immediately made fun of him for "thinking of criminals" but now you're here telling me prisons are corrupt and keeping lots of people who aren't prisoners. Which is it?

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    but now you're here telling me prisons are corrupt and keeping lots of people who aren't prisoners. Which is it?

    People who are not prisoners? They certainly are prisoners. You mean not deserving criminals, I didnt say they werent that, either. They same number of criminals might simply be kept in prison a lot longer than they had been, leading to a glut of imprisoned people.

    In general, it's not that you're necessarily wrong, it's that you make big leaps of logic that aren't underpinned with hard facts, just conjecture.

    [–]dcjogger 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

    What will supporters of the police state say when their beloved police come to arrest them for racist hate speech, to confiscate their guns, and to force them to board trains headed to the concentration camps?

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

    What will the pedophiles say when they come for their gigabytes of cp? What will the pill pushers say when their supply lines are cut? What will the murderers say when they're placed at the scene by cell records? Who will think of the criminals???

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    I bet they said the same thing under most authoritarian regimes. The existence of bad people is not a reason for good people to be thrown under the bus

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    Let's never solve any concrete problems because someone always has to have some abstract concern. No speed limits, because some day they speed limit will become 0 mph. No laws against assault and battery because some day you wont even be able to legally defend yourself.

    You could say the same thing about court ordered search-and-seizure. We've been on the slippery slope forever, and yet somehow we haven't slipped.

    Do you know what look a lot more like an authoritarian regime? The POTUS telling border agents to break the law, promising that he will pardon them if they get caught.

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    Let's never solve any concrete problems because someone always has to have some abstract concern.

    Now you are contradicting your previous point:

    What will the pedophiles say when they come for their gigabytes of cp? What will the pill pushers say when their supply lines are cut? What will the murderers say when they're placed at the scene by cell records? Who will think of the criminals???

    Seems like you're the one making abstract concerns to prevent action from being taken... now you're accusing me of the same.

    We've been on the slippery slope forever, and yet somehow we haven't slipped.

    We slipped a long time ago. What is happening right now with search-and-seizure is criminal.

    Do you know what look a lot more like an authoritarian regime?

    3 million people locked in concrete cages, most of whom committed victim-less "crimes"?

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    The example of the pedophiles and murderers are concrete examples, they are real crimes and criminals that are impeded by the ability of the government to monitor their actions.

    3 million people locked in concrete cages, most of whom committed victim-less "crimes"?

    What are your stats? Even so, I suspect the "victemless" claim is an abstraction as well.

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    It's not when most are in for recreational personal drug use, from a drug war started in the 1980s: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg/1200px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg.png

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    That's a myth, only a small percentage of incarcerations are related to drug possession. Most are in for violent and property crime. The best argument I've seen for the large population in prison is the trend of prosecutors filing harsher charges and asking for harsher sentences and having them granted by judges, in order for both to claim they are being tough on crime.

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Literally just dipped under 50%

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/drug-war-mass-incarceration_n_3034310

    Myth my ass. I gave you stats.

    Most are in for violent and property crime.

    Obviously wrong. Where are your stats? Or are you just making things up?

    [–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    The article you mention talks about federal prisoners, not all prisoners.

    https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html "at the state and local levels, far more people are locked up for violent and property offenses than for drug offenses alone"