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[–]Antarchomachus[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I suppose, but there are also many socieoeconomically disadvantaged black people who never do anything like this, so I'm not sure attributing this crime to 'blackness' is completely fair either

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Black people compromise about 13% of the population in the US. 65% of the crime is not done by 13% as often claimed, it's by half that, mostly just the men. 6.5% of the population is responsible for the majority of crime.

Obviously this does not mean every black person is a criminal, but a quarter of black males will end up behind bars sometime in their life. Think of a person's network of family, friends, associates. That's a lot of, albeit unintentionally, associated criminality even for a perfectly decent person. They bring this baggage, this risk with them.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No, I wouldn't deny that Blacks are over represented in crime statistics, and I realize that you cannot account for all of it with economics and police discrimination.

I also realize you are not a bigot, but bigots use this logic to project the assumption of criminality onto ALL black people. It is a probabilistic argument, a heuristic if you will. I worry about this leading to the thinking of the debatealtwhite types, where their idea of a perfect society is all white people, because they statistically have more desirable traits (by their selection criteria). But this completely misses the fact that if we actually selected for the desirable traits rather than using a heuristic, the optimal society would exclude some unworthy whites, and include some worthy blacks, meaning the optimal society isn't racially based at all. This use of race as a heuristic seems to me to completely miss the point.

Personally, I am not sure it is even possible to talk about race in a constructive way, but I rarely talk to anyone about this that is capable of objectivity on this issue, so I am curious as to what your thoughts are on this.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't think the Alt-White, that's a hilarious term btw, is any more bigoted than any other group of peoples. Nobody shits on Japan for wanted to remain Japanese. And there's countless examples. They have a point that it is simply anti-white sentiment if the idea is otherwise acceptable for any other race. I don't accept everyone categorized as white bears this racial burden of white guilt.

I think far less of them are really the bigots they're branded as.

I don't want to live in a black neighborhood, hearing gun shots every day, not being able to go out at night, not being able to safely leave a gate. I've lived in some ghetto ass areas and I pay a lot not to now. Is that racist?

Would you go down a dark alleyway with a black guy there, just to prove you're not racist? Would you mind if your wife or daughter did? What percentage, what threshold of potential harm satisfies racial sensitivity. Or is the smart thing just not to walk down a dark alleyway at night.

I think we just need to accept that black people are more prone to violence and act accordingly and not condemn what's common sense out of concern for people's feelings.

optimal society

God help us if we try for we will fuck it up so bad. I mean who wants junkies in your New Eden? But think of all the smart and intelligent people that would exclude. So many sorts of "undesirables," serve useful if not welcome roles. An engineered society would end up being the world's most boring society and everyone would end up killing themselves out of sheer monotony.

[–]Antarchomachus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Appreciate the reply, its not often I get a chance to discuss race without dogmatism and strong feelings making it difficult.

Nobody shits on Japan for wanted to remain Japanese.

I get this, and I think there is a very strong case to be made for homogeneity of people making governing smoother. My counter question has more to do with how we are defining an 'ethnic' group. A state of Japanese people, to me is analogous to a state of German people, or Irish people, this a real 'ethnic' group. However, I would say something like white-nationalism is more akin to a state of 'all asians'. There is not as much of a cultural, genetic, or historical 'sameness' here, and I would also say that an Asian Ethno-State that didn't discriminate between Japanese and Korean would sound very strange to me in the same why white nationalism does. I guess what I am saying is, I am not so sure how to define an 'ethnic group' in terms of this ideology, it seems less than clear to me precisely how to draw this distinction.

I don't want to live in a black neighborhood, hearing gun shots every day, not being able to go out at night, not being able to safely leave a gate. I've lived in some ghetto ass areas and I pay a lot not to now. Is that racist?

No, definitely not. In my mind it becomes racism only if you prefer a neighborhood of poor white criminals to wealthy law-abiding blacks. I wouldn't say there is anything 'wrong' with this, people can prefer whatever they like, but I think it be quite stupid, and would qualify as 'racism'. If racism stopped here, I wouldn't really have a problem with it, but when ideologies are centered around beliefs like this, they seem to become harmful in ways that transcend self-segregation.

Would you go down a dark alleyway with a black guy there, just to prove you're not racist? Would you mind if your wife or daughter did? What percentage, what threshold of potential harm satisfies racial sensitivity. Or is the smart thing just not to walk down a dark alleyway at night. I think we just need to accept that black people are more prone to violence and act accordingly and not condemn what's common sense out of concern for people's feelings.

Here I actually agree with you, it makes sense to apply a probabilistic heuristic in this case. I would certainly avoid the alley with unknown black man in it, and make sure my family did too.

Also completely agree that the racial sensitivity is at an outrageous level, and by no means would I want to endorse any sort of wokism. I personally think there is a line where racism and wokism both go too far. I admit I'm not exactly sure where the lines are myself, but I appreciate being able to converse with someone objectively about this

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Appreciate the reply, its not often I get a chance to discuss race without dogmatism and strong feelings making it difficult.

It is something that we as a nation should have more honest discussions about.

My counter question has more to do with how we are defining an 'ethnic' group

I figure that'd have to be up to the community. An ethnostate isn't my dream. Some nationalists are far more inclusive than others. I think at one end you have people open to everyone who assimilates, like the Germans, Irish, and even Hispanics together, etc... and on the other is the scary Aryan dudes.

Most of the people in my area are of Hispanic descent but identify as white. I don't think it's far fetched at all. The asian races can't really mix because they generally hate each other, but that's more of an outlier than the norm.