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[–]Intuit 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (27 children)

Why the need to require it if it's a good idea?

[–]Nemacolin 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

The good is a social one, less oil imported, less pollution produced. The cost is a private one. A person might not make his contribution but enjoy the benefit.

[–]ReeferMadness 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sounds like a hypothetical good and huge profits for those invested in solar. It is well known in non sheep circles that the environmental costs of manufacturing solar systems far outpace other forms of power generation.

Nuclear would be far more economically friendly.

[–]Nemacolin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have noticed a lot of shilling for nuclear in the opinion pages. I see Ohio just passed a huge subsidy for their failing nuclear industry.

[–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gee I wonder why people support the greatest invention in human history. Unlike solar that has been on government aid since inception, and can't survive without it.

[–]Nemacolin 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Best of luck to you!

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Should "socially good" behavior be required? One could argue that giving money to the neighborhood church/mosque/temple is a social good. Shouldn't that be a lawful mandate, then? Mandatory work at your local hospital or nursing home? A limit on how many children you can have?

I'm not saying that in a perfect world everyone would make good decisions and the outcomes of everyone's actions would lead to beneficial outcomes, but at what point do you take responsibility for your own actions and allow other individuals to take responsibility for theirs?

[–]Intuit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Buy the panels for me and give me a portion of the supposed benefits. If there really are large benefits, you should profit.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because people will want to save $9,500 at the outset, even if utility bills should be cheaper in the long run.

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I think they meant good idea for the need of the home buyer/builder, not the want if the state.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm arguing that the "need to require it" because people will often forego the extra $9500 when building a new house, even it it's a good idea to have the panel. This is because bank financing will tack on a higher rate for the mortgage, which one could try to avoid.

[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Who decides what a good idea is? If it is, why should it be required for the individual to fund the development of this technology instead of the businesses making money from it?

And this is not a zero-sum outcome. The electric utility company will find a way to charge you for power grid infrastructure if they aren't selling you all of the electricity you are consuming. They only way to avoid this is to be totally off-grid, but many, if not most jurisdictions require you to be tied to the grid.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yee - should be optional.

Mandating solar panels helps move residents away from dependence on the grid (a percentage of it).

This would help solar panel businesses. I don't think it helps utility companies, which is one reason for intensive lobbying from these companies - and from Big Oil - to heavily tax green energy initiatives.

[–]Zapped 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I totally agree with you that green energy is better than fossil fuel and that we are moving inevitably towards it and that it will be cheaper one day. I am just at odds with you on forcing the individual to pay to get us there faster. Not because it is a good outcome, but because those who decide what is a good outcome often rationalize what is a good outcome to justify these mandates. Where does it stop?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Because the average person is an idiot and doesn't know what's for their own good, let alone the good of anyone else.

Here in Australia motorcycle helmets are compulsory, and for good reason. In the US they are not and many end up on Ogrish where the riders face is missing or split in half.

[–]Intuit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because the average person is an idiot and doesn't know what's for their own good, let alone the good of anyone else.

Ahhh yes, the people who are so sure of their superiority over others that they justify imposing their views on others with the threat of violence.

[–]Zapped 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm glad someone actually said this out loud. It's like all of the politicians and celebrities who encourage or order restrictions and "proper social etiquette" concerning Covid-19, who then don't follow their own advice or orders are just that: people who feel like everyone else is just too stupid. This is the laziest of attitudes.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ahhh yes, the people who are so sure of their superiority over others that they justify imposing their views on others with the threat of violence

yeah, that's it! Like what all the European peoples and their offspring did to the native americans and the mexicans who didn't like the way they wanted to do things. Or the current stock, who occupy bases in a hundred countries, ready to deliver the death blow to any government of group that dares to contradict their view on how the planet should be run. That's how the world works, Elected people telling everyone else how to live their lives. There is another system, called the darkage anarchy system where people can do whatever they like, no rules! Of course that means a group of bandits can come upon you in the middle of the night and rape your women and take all you have. But that's ok, that's the system. No rules.

[–]Intuit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So far you haven't made a good argument for forcing people to add solar panels to homes, nor for such things in general.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't need to make an argument, I know from experience. I have 10kva on my roof, the system is half paid off in just 2 years with the money the power company pays me and I pay nothing for my consumption. It's 32-C outside at the moment and 22-C inside, a bit chilly actually, but WTF, it's free electricity! I would have though that in a country like the US, where shit loads of people can't even afford to have the power on now, that it would be a no-brainer? Like have a flushing toilet or water connected or a garbage collection service. At least in the years ahead people will be able to have lights and run their fridges.

I know you yanks are screwed 5 ways over but don't bite off your nose to spite your face. Home solar is a good idea and making it mandatory on new homes is too. But if you have an issue, then buy an old home as there are plenty of them around. As far as things go, having solar mandatory is nothing compared with the shitty materials most homes are made of now, that's lack of regulation where needed if ever I saw it. I wouldn't touch a new build, I upgraded to a 1970's brick with hardwood floors, steel I-beams downstairs to support it, Thick concrete slab that won't crack. In other words Intuit I'm not just prattling opinions out my arse, I can speak from experience, on homes, solar, motorcycles, many subjects. You on the other hand offer nothing but knee-jerk rejection based on your opinion, no doubt, that nothing government does can be trusted. Get a bit of experience under your belt and then come back and talk.

[–]Intuit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"I'm forcing you to do this because I know it's a good idea" falls flat many people. That's why you need to make an argument. Even then if you argue that it's just cost-effective, then you then have to explain why you feel the need to force people.

[–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The average person being an idiot explains why people believe this is to save the environment when it does fuck all to save the environment. It's all about funneling funding into your investments.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

We had a mandatory helmet law in my state for a hot second. Late 90s, early 2000ish. Motorcycles aren't exactly the safest form of transportation anyways.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No they aren't, I rode for 40 years and then gave it away, had a bad one in my youth, you should have seen the helmet, all scratched up and a dent where it hit the curb. Wearing them is all about 'freedom' they saw but in reality it all boils down to image for most that go without. Image, personal laziness. Leather jackets aren't compulsory and you should see what a body looks like after a slide down a rough bitumen road in a cotton T-shirt lol lol. Squids we call em. I for one am glad helmets were made compulsory here, at 17 years old you don't have a brain in your head and need a bit of oversight.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The stats are pretty clear in the US. "Motorcyclists account for 14% of all crash-related fatalities, even though they are only 3% of the vehicles on the road. Motorcyclists are 28 times more likely than passenger-vehicle occupants to die in a car crash. More than 80% of these type of crashes result in an injury or death." Shitty law blog but that's 2015 NHTSA stats.

you should see what a body looks like after a slide down a rough bitumen road in a cotton T-shirt

I've seen that. My friend laid his bike down on the freeway doing 90. Looked like a bloody piece of ground beef.

I for one am glad helmets were made compulsory here, at 17 years old you don't have a brain in your head and need a bit of oversight.

If you're for legislating safety, why stop at helmets though. You'd save lives not letting people drive motorcycles at all in the US.

Britain is a good example of this gone wild. Guns are dangerous so they're restricted, so people use knives, those got heavily regulated, people use cars.... if they keep going, rocks are going to be illegal since they can be dangerous weapons.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

yeah I get your point about regulations going overboard, I imagine they always do in any long-spanning culture, but you have to admit, we need them. Go back in time when it was ok to employ 7 year olds to clean chimneys, or when putting asbestos into blankets was allowed long after it was obvious that the shit was dangerous. We need regulations in a society, it's what makes society. I guess at all times people have railed about regulations, thinking no doubt that society had evolved enough. But regarding the mandatory use of helmets, well the only people who can really comment on that are motorcycle riders, anyone else is just poking their nose into business they have no stake in. Like anti-gun nuts telling gun owners how they should live, you agree?

Edit: As for what's happened in the UK, well I have a theory about that, a theory relating to the mass immigration of arabs and niggers etc. I wonder what it would be like on the streets of London if a million arabs muslims had access to AK47's? Did you read about the hand grenade amnesty in Sweden?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The asbestos ban in the US lasted about as long as the helmet thing. I worked very briefly for a father and son construction company until they both died of mesothelioma. I don't know how true it is, but I've heard it said construction pays so well because those guys don't generally have normal lifespans.

Like anti-gun nuts telling gun owners how they should live, you agree?

I don't agree in that example, not because I'm against guns, but because people against guns don't want other people having guns. I think we've all met some people who probably shouldn't own firearms and the anti-gun nuts are probably quite fearful of guns so that's exacerbated in their case.

But I agree on the motorcycle riders having their own say on how things are though. Just here they didn't want to be mandated to wear helmets. They just have to get insurance high enough to cover whatever they might splat against. It's cheap, scraping a biker off your car isn't too expensive. So that doesn't impact others quite as a gun possibly could.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The asbestos ban in the US lasted about as long as the helmet thing. I worked very briefly for a father and son construction company until they both died of mesothelioma.

Well that sucks! It's totally banned here in Oz but the Chinese scum are constantly trying to sneak the shit back in the form of brake pads and building materials. Fuck the chinese and anyone who looks chinese! They have no soul, just a digital calculator/currency converter. When I lived in the city it was in a burb full of them and while they are peaceful and nice, smart and skilled, you don't want to do business with them because you'll get screwed everytime.