you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]Only71Genders 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (70 children)

No one can confirm anything major about history was a factual event. That's the nature of human knowledge. We can make some solid assumptions though. But videos and pics can be faked or misleading. Stats can be lied about. Stories too. For all we know, only ten thousand Jews actually died in German custody. Or ten million. There is no confirming any of it. Just estimates and assumptions to fit a narrative.

[–]Buri 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (69 children)

No. We have a very good idea what happened. This isn’t a conspiracy.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (68 children)

Yeah, we have good numbers since the red cross was allowed observers in the camps.

https://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/auschwitz.jpg

Much harder to know how many died in less documented events, like the Holodomor.

https://borgenproject.org/holodomor-genocide/

Source of that image: Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans les camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War (Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet, explained in the opening pages of the Report that their objective, in the tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality.

[–]Anticapitalist 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (67 children)

we have good numbers since the red cross was allowed observers in the camps.

The Red Cross said that's bullshit. The Red Cross (the ICRC) denies that they ever made those statistics:

  • "In the 1978 official bulletin, entitled "False Propaganda", the ICRC denounced Holocaust denial and confirmed that the agency "Never published—or even compiled—statistics of this kind which are being falsely attributed to it" and stated that its mission was "to help war victims, not to count them",[84][85][86] and questioned how they would have even been able to obtain such statistics had they wanted to, given that they were "only able to enter only a few concentration camps...in the final days of the war".[84][86] The agency states that the figures used are "the number of deaths recorded by the International Tracing Service on the basis of documents found when the camps were closed",[84][86] and accordingly bear no relation to the total death tolls,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial

Marou, you are denying the holocaust with out of context info. I see holocaust deniers using that same image all the time.

Maybe you read this from some neo-nazis and didn't realize how vulgar this is, but you are using the very cruel and irrational talking points of nazis.

/u/Buri, thank you for explaining that the holocaust is not a conspiracy theory.

I really hope this website doesn't get taken over by the nazi/kkk people like what happened to voat.

[–]hsacdvhkl 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Kek, using a wikipedia link, the most kiked site on the plant.

[–]RuckFeddit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

wikipedia proves it's real

lmfao

[–]Anticapitalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

wikipedia proves it's real

No, The Red Cross itself was the source.

Wikipedia just hosted text about this.

[–]RuckFeddit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Provide a link then. I read the Wikipedia link and their 1 citation is a random book nobody knows about. (Typical JIDF) Also, the Rothschilds have been involved with the Red Cross since its inception.

[–]Anticapitalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

and their 1 citation is a random book nobody knows about.

Wrong. Wiki referenced two books & the ICRC bulletin itself.

Btw, calling a book "random" is not evidence that the Red Cross didn't make the statement.

You can google even more sources for this bulletin, but you'd probably say "all those websites are a conspiracy by the jews and the Rothchilds."

lso, the Rothschilds have been involved with the Red Cross since its inception.

This just another conspiracy theory attempt to deny the holocaust.

[–]RuckFeddit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

you're probably going to call everything a conspiracy
calls opposing point a conspiracy

this is you

[–]Anticapitalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I'm not the conspiracy person here: the Nazis openly admitted what they did and tried to justify it after the war, eg at the Nuremberg trials.

Nazi police officer:

  • "I made the effort to only shoot children. It so happened that the mothers led the children by the hand. My neighbor then shot the mother and I shot the child that belonged to her. Because I reasoned with myself that after all, without it's mother the child could not live any longer. It was supposed to be, so to speak, soothing to my conscience to release children unable to live without their mother."

https://youtu.be/O8UzmLsXGRU?t=1165 YouTube

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Marou, you are denying the holocaust with out of context info. I see holocaust deniers using that same image all the time.

Let's suppose that's true, at least it wouldn't be the first time 6 million jews died that century.

https://files.catbox.moe/tc65w0.jpg

Poor survivors: https://www.bitchute.com/video/f494StgGbykO/

It's a shame Churchill and others involved didn't mention anything about it in their memoirs. I'm sure if people hadn't waited until the 60's and 70's to realize it happened they would have been able to find some evidence other than "witness accounts".

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

it wouldn't be the first time 6 million jews died that century.

Even if those blurry newspaper texts are all real, a newspaper saying that 6 million jewish people were in poverty & hungry is not evidence that the holocaust wasn't real.

That number could just be a coincidence.

I didn't read every single blurry text in that image, but I didn't see any which said 6 million jews died of anything.

But even if 6 million jews died in some 1920s illness (or something) that could still be coincidence, it still wouldn't be evidence that the holocaust was fake.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You know the 6 million number has significance in Tulmudic Gnosticism, yeah? That's why it appears over and over. It has little bearing on anything in reality. Old thread on the topic:

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=6017

"Now in the Judaism argument the concept of the 'Guzma' comes of importance. The 'Guzma' is a rabbinical concept, which is used to express the scale of a catastrophe ('shoah'), i.e. the number of jews who have suffered and/or died, in terms related to the tales of the Written Torah. Now the 'Guzma' relies on the Talmud Bavli (I forget the precise citations as the thing is huge) in so far as it calculates the extent of a 'shoah' by taking the number of jews the Bavli says came out of Egypt with Moses in the Torah (600,000) and then multiplies it by a number to express how serious and awful a 'shoah' the event is (from what I've read usually 1 to 10 given that jewish audiences became less accepting of insane figures at least as early as the 19th century). Thus 600,000 x 10 = 6,000,000 (i.e a truly biblical shoah). So in this argument we have rabbis explaining the scale of a 'shoah', which they cannot know, by using the concept of the 'Guzma' to create a number which can then be passed along to other rabbis around the world as a representation of the scale of the 'shoah' which has occurred or is occurring: hence the '6,000,000' claim."

It's religious significance is why such wild claims are made, and good god there are so many. All completely illegal to question in Europe. https://files.catbox.moe/lohtlg.jpg

People like to be thought of as martyrs.

Certainly the Nazi's killed many Jews, by firing squad; many having been involved in communist insurrection. Others were worked to death, and still more died of Typhus and starvation once allies cut the supply lines. Based on census numbers before and after the war, and many other metrics, it was between 2 and 400,000.

There was no concentrated effort however, to exterminate a people that could be put to use to perform labor. The Germans are an efficient people. The jews they killed, died by firearm - not bugspray.

https://files.catbox.moe/ygg1tb.png

The holodomor, by contrast. Was an intentional genocide of Ukranian Christians by Marxist Jews. Unlike the holocaust there is physical evidence and orders, and there were and are millions of bodies as proof. This is a classic case of projecting your crimes upon your enemy. Something the left is still exceedingly good at doing today.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

600,000) and then multiplies it by a number to express how serious and awful a 'shoah' the event is (from what I've read usually 1 to 10 given that jewish audiences became less accepting of insane figures at least as early as the 19th century). Thus 600,000 x 10 = 6,000,000 (i.e a truly biblical shoah).

So, the official Red Cross documented 291,000 figure is just under 0.5 shoah?

That might be the worst "shoah" on record. :-/

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

That entire post is a conspiracy theory.

The many millions of people who disappeared in nazi germany (whether jewish, gay, etc) were killed as proven by all the death camps found, and the nazis were so incredibly evil they were even killing children. There's all sorts of records of them admitting this, and even portraying themselves as compassionate for doing it.

And again, the number of 6m was based off estimates that 6m jewish people disappeared. Even if 6m was a number used before that could just be a coincidence.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

proven by all the death camps found

There is no evidence. Scratch the surface and all you have are "Survivor accounts". What we're allowed to see are carefully filtered to the people making wild claims. Anything else is censored and destroyed.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/0Y7c27fda3wj/

[–]Anticapitalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

proven by all the death camps found There is no evidence.

Have you literally never seen the photos of the nazi death camps?

Please just look at the images, eg here's some and here's some more.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes I've seen that and I still haven't seen anyone mention anything of importance on it. The fact that there are various estimates, eg 6 million jews in both poland and the ukraine, appear to be nothing but a bunch of coincidences. Same with figures about poverty/etc.

The estimate that the nazis killed 6 million jews came in big part from nazi estimates.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes I've seen that and I still haven't seen anyone mention anything of importance on it.

Obviously you haven't seen it. The video I shared shows the 6 million number used hundreds of times decades before the holocaust.

The fact that there are various estimates, eg 6 million jews in both poland and the ukraine, appear to be nothing but a bunch of coincidences. Same with figures about poverty/etc.

Lol. That's a lot of cohencidences moshe. It's almost as if numbers play an important role in Judaic ritual practices and thus leeches into their propaganda.

The estimate that the nazis killed 6 million jews came in big part from nazi estimates.

Stop repeating this without a source. It won't work here.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

. That's a lot of cohencidences

Actually it just has to be one coincidence. Even if the number 6m was used repeatedly by jewish people, it was a nazi estimate of the amount of jewish people they killed.

But many of the numbers brought up repeatedly (eg the estimate that there were 6 million jews in the ukraine) aren't just coincidences but mostly irrelevant coincidences.

[–]Buri 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This has GOT to be trolls at work. No one is that stupid on purpose.

[–]Anticapitalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This has GOT to be trolls at work. No one is that stupid on purpose.

IMO these nazis are very serious 😐. And they are trying to soften their language so people don't even realize they're nazis. They're growing in numbers. They form nazi circlejerks where they all pretend everything is a jewish conspiracy theory.

I have a growing folder of debunks for these people.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, totally. All these people here, are members of the National Socialist Grrman Workers Party. Makes sense. /s

[–]Buri 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had no idea this is where they come to troll.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or maybe people have different opinions. Nobody is espousing that Hitler and the Nazis was a good; revisionists here re simply questioning certain aspecrs about the so-called holocaust. Many times hey have been proven right.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

The burden is on you to prove the holocaust not the revisionists to disprove it.

You just said yourself that the red cross is not a reliable source because they claim to have not gone in all the camps. So the burden on you to provide a reliable source that went into all the camps and confirms the 6 million and confirms that they weren't from starvation and disease from German infrastructure and supply lines breaking down from allied bombing (the more likely scenario and the DOCUMENTED scenario).

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

and confirms the 6 million and confirms that they weren't starvation

Actually the people running the death camps, shooting the children, etc were not starving to death. This is all the evidence that is needed to show these were (of course) death camps.

so the burden on you to provide a reliable source that went into all the camps

Among things, it was a nazi estimate that they murdered 6 million jews. Plus it's an estimate of the people who disappeared.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

Among things, it was a nazi estimate that they murdered 6 million jews. Plus it's an estimate of the people who disappeared.

source.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

source.

Are you not reading from the like 10 times I posted it already?

  • "In the 1961 testimony, Hoettl recalled how “Eichmann … told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 Jews had perished until then -- 4,000,000 in extermination camps and the remaining 2,000,000 through shooting by the Operations Units and other causes, such as disease, etc.” "

https://www.academia.edu/19580380/Capstone_1

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

LMAO. You just gave me a college paper on Holocaust denial. Not even written by historians. The paper is MLA citation. It's not even Turabian. LMAO! Holy shit this made my day.

You trolls are sneaking in to operate on saidit and your lucky that I'm not on here more often to expose you. If this were reddit I would have responded faster. Eventually I will get over to this site more.

OK here's the redpill dump just in case people are still reading this thread. I've now tagged you as jew shill and will be monitoring your presence on saidit and commenting whenever I can to expose your bullshit.

Here's the dump

----start dump of previous discussion reply---

I think a lot of Jews did die in ww2 due to crimes against humanity.

Holocaust revisionists do not deny that jews died in Europe during ww2 and in some cases were totally innocent (neither spies nor combatants).

Now much of the official holocaust narrative is BS, gas chambers, mengele's human experiments and the shower room stuff were clearly allied atrocity propaganda

That's what the holocaust is and if you said what you just said publicly you'd be called a holocaust denier and could possible be jailed in more than a dozen countries. The holocaust isn't a historical event up for adjustment and debate like other historical event. It's an industry and a narrative and the only people allowed to adjust it and correct it are a group of 11 or so approved historians.

But I think a lot of Jews did disproportionately die due to other reasons. The causes Jews died in millions(my estimate was that 4.9 million Jews died) are

Jews dying for 'other reasons' is again not disputed by revisionists. It's actually a key component of holocaust revisionism. You're 4.9 number is high though. The highest I've heard from a credible source is 2.3 from Irving and he's not particularly wedded to that number. My guess is 500-750k died and half of those were in some way probably tied into spying, Marxist subversion and in a fair court the nat socs could probably argue and prove they were combatants. The other half died from typhus, starvation and yes some probably died from cruelty/murder in a chaotic war theater. In fact this is why there were so many Jews in concentration camps. They sought out the camps to be protected from the lawlessness and hostility of war.

Forced labor: Its no secret that the Germans used slave labor to build factories, weapons and infrastructure.

Ok right of the bat I'm going to stop you. I don't think you've actually engaged with the revisionist sources. This isn't slave labor. This is prison labor. That's a HUGE difference. Many Jews choose not to work in camps and instead just engaged in the maintenance and running of the camp accouterments. The alternative was living in German society that was hostile to them for conspiring to bring the Americans into WWI. I'm not really sure how much I can really engage with you here if you haven't actually dug down on the revisionist arguments.

Let me catch you up on the revisionist sources.

First there's David Cole (jewish) who looked at aushwitz. Here's a shortened video on his findings.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/fH3nQI45kiQW/

The next big guy is of course Earnst Zundel. Here's an outstanding interview he did with an Israeli. LOTs of intersting stuff in this doc. I highly recommend you take the time to listen.

https://archive.org/details/ErnstZundelInterviewedByAnIsraeliJournalist1996G

Next here's a thread that caused quite a stir on debatealtright.

https://old.reddit.com/r/DebateAltRight/comments/9bi1rv/the_holocaust_did_not_happen/

I'd encourage you to read the unz article that reddit deleted from the thread.

http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

Then after you've looked at the unz article you might want to read through the comments in the thread.

The Japanese did it and prisons do this today. 3 million Soviet pows simply died in the camps. It makes no sense that Jews wouldn't too

Again, revisionists do not deny Jews died in camps. How many and how and whether or not is was a directed cleansing 'plan' by nat soc elites is where all the drama is.

Soviets, Japanese, Germans, and Americans all run war camps very differently. To conflate them is a bit silly. We also have the problem that there's a VERY high incentive for governments to lie about what they do to prisoners so ALL gov sources and gov histories about these war camps need closely examined and cross referenced. Here's a look at what people on the ground have shared about the German camp system.

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

I think many died due to forced labor as the Germans worked them to death or took them on death marches.

You'd need to provide a source for this. The reports, images and video in the deprogramingcourse website refute this 'worked to death' claim. Jews themselves refute this work to death claim. There are thousands talking about playing in the 'death camp' symphony or putting on plays.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/EsXm99fExImK/

If the survivors are to be believed then certainly the ones talking about atrocities should be offset by the ones talking about brothels and orchestras so that neutral observers can make an informed decision. This is how you shape consensus; this is how you manufacture consent. You simply hand select the testimonies that fit the narrative. Finkelstein talks about this opinion manufacturing industry is his book The Holocaust Industry.

And let's not even get into all of the outlandish claims by the survivors who were promoted.

https://media.8ch.net/file_store/636e21115360cec3bb795ddeee5fc286f7de5b63a61cffdde1718968ade2b26d.jpg

Starvation: This is the real killer, nearly 3 million Soviet POWs died, most of them from starvation and the same is true for the Jews.

Again. Starvation is not denied by revisionists. It's the how and why. Most starvation in the camps comes as the end of the war and it was due to supply line disruption from allied bombing. Obviously Germans are going to prioritize German soldiers in the field and German families in the Reich over Jews and war prisoners. If you consider that ethnic cleansing so be it but IMO it's just a result of the chaos at the end of the war and the immoral civilian bombing started by Churchill. Stalin on the other hand starved civilians and prisoners in a more strategic/corporal way.

If you want to see agressive ethnic cleansing through starvation read about the Rhind Meadows.

https://ww2gravestone.com/an-american-rhine-meadows-camp-guard-speaks-out/

That's what weaponized starvation encampment looks like. If Hitler had those aspiration he could have started those camps in '39 or even earlier and there's no evidence of that.

Germans confiscated food from the occupied territories to feed their own. This caused food shortage for the camp prisoners who were allowed to stave. Over ten million people in German occupied lands died in starvation, its only rational that the Jews suffered this too.

Ah. That's what you do in war but that's also a result of farm production going way down because farmers where out fighting war. There's not only less food but armies (on all side) confiscate the food. Yes Jews certainly died from this war famine like everybody else but the world almanac of Jewish population does not reflect 6, 5, or even 4 million Jews dying during this period.

https://media.8ch.net/file_store/0558867345c1855aaefaa177751d9a345b323c1cedd7a9015c4aabef45773ac7.jpg

Yet on the other hand we do see Jewish population going up in British Palestine, the United States, Britain, etc. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see what's going on here.

Shootings and persecutions: Its no secret that the Einsatzgruppen in tandem with local militias shot communists, Jews and partisans.

And why not? They had literally stood in the streets of Germany with machines guns years earlier not to mentioned collaborated with foreign nations to undermine the Reich or do you not believe in a sovereign nations right to execute traitors?

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1405992204336.jpg

The SS had a penchant for mass murders and shootings, think of malmedy, Wormhoudt and countless other examples.

The SS had a penchant for winning a conflict. The SS was a military unit. Killing people is part of winning wars. I know you understand European history. I've seen you write detailed posts about European wars/conflicts/battles. What's up with all this 'murder' language. Show me a nation that gives up it ability to execute traitors/enemies/combatants/subversives and I will show you a nation that's about to collapse and be taken over by another nation willing to 'murder.'

As they hated Jews more than all else it makes no sense that they'd make an exception to them, they didn't flinch at killing fellow Germanic English, forget Jews.

This is a HUGE misconception. Antisemitism in Germany was almost unheard of before the Treaty of Versailles and the German diplomats learning about the Balfour declaration. You'd think if there was so much German 'antisemitism' then Jews wouldn't have been allowed to own so much industry, media and academic seats in German society. In fact there are some eerie parallels with American society.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

PART II

Finally there's another reason, the number of Jews don't add up, there were 13 million Jews in 1939, today there are about 14 million, there's no way a group with good birth rates failed to increase their population at all in 80 years, there was a mass culling of Jews.

Again revisioninsts don't disagree with jews dying in Europe and jews being displace from Germany. They disagree with the 'culling' language. Hitler explicity stated he wanted Jews out of europe and attempted to find places to peacefully resettlethem. Why would someone who wants to cull jews from the earth work to resettle them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

Why would a guy who was constantly asked by subordinates what to do with the Jews continue to issue orders not to harm them and to wait until the war is over?

This post of yours Scythian is highly suspicious. I'd strongly encourage you to go through these materials. Please do not continue to misrepresent what revisionists are saying. It's too common a tactic of our enemy. You wouldn't want to be confused with our enemy now would you?

---more JQ discussion stuff here =-------->

https://pastebin.com/xKC7Y8gT

https://pastebin.com/jtsd9YEz

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

[emotions]

Your emotions like "lol i don't consider that guy a historian!!1" are irrelevant. Here's another source:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/holocaust-remembrance-day/6-million-where-is-the-figure-from-1.5319546

I know you'll say "but they're jews so it's all a conspiracy!11".

. Yes Jews certainly died from this war famine like everybody else

Don't lie. The people running the death camps and shooting the jewish children weren't starving like that.