all 30 comments

[–]dcjogger[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Why not set the minimum wage at $1000 per hour and rents at $10 per month? Wealth by decree! Free money!

Everyone knows that the USSR was such a huge success. What could go wrong?

https://www.godlikeproductions.com/

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ussr got cia couped. need worldwide socialist revolution so there are no capitalist societies left to bribe leaders. ceos can stand to take a lower bonus. people talk about trumps economy, which is good, just like obama's was good, but real wages are stagnant. just being good is not good enough we need it to be great, always demand more, need progress not status quo.

[–]IamRedBeard 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Lets abolish the minimum wage, sure. If that will make corporations happy. But unionize everybody. I mean Everybody. Fast food Unions, Waitstaff Unions, Retail unions, Looking For Work Unions, Factory Unions, QA unions, Teachers Unions. Some shit might grind to a straight up fucking halt, but there wont be a minimum wage.

Yea. That seems fair. The working class can give up minimum wage for an opportunity to stand together for better conditions, pay - and insurance, vacations, and maternity leave.

Unbelievable

There is more money now than ever before and yet every billionaire acts like they could go broke any minute. And folks eat it up and believe it every day and defend them on the .0000002% chance that they get wealthy themselves. THere is more than enough money to go around and pay people a living wage, always has been.

Eat the rich.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Truth

[–]dcjogger[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The elites committed fraud and received billion dollar bailouts instead of being jailed.

Politicians get campaign donations to make laws that enslave Americans.

The Gestapo enforce the decrees and think they're not responsible for anything because they're just following orders.

Immoral American sheep don't care that the government is carrying out illegal wars, torturing, unconstitutionally wiretapping, and running up the debt as long as there are bread and circuses.

Americans think pollution will be stopped by regulations, but companies just can pay a bribe.

Americans scream a trade war will make Americans rich, but actually tariffs just raise costs and kill exports.

Americans insist a high minimum wage is necessary, but minimum wages just increase prices and kill jobs.

Americans say banning guns makes everyone safe, but gun bans just take away your right to self-defense and the Gestapo won't protect you.

Americans deserve everything coming to them.

[–]SocietyisDisgusting 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

slavery ( absolute shit tier jobs ) vs unemployment is a question as old as time.

i don t see workers getting hurt in australia which has a pretty big minimal wage

then again if you are in position to depend of the state or a employer in a shit tier job you are already fucked to start with. such is life in a pyramidal society

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Doesn't Australia have no real minimum wage, but instead, strong unions that keep wages super high?

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

It'll only hurt workers because CEOs don't want to make less money. We've had a minimum wage for years and haven't slide into a purely socialist country. Raising that minimum wage isn't going to help close the wage gap on the ultra rich CEO and the below poverty line minimum wage worker, but having the mindset that it will "hurt the worker" is brainwashing. The gap between what a executive makes and what a minimum wage worker makes is really the astonishing thing. We don't have to be a socialist or communist country to have a more balance perspective on wage and class discrepancy.

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Executives make less than doctors. Are you referring to Fortune 500 companies? The average CEO makes less that 200k per year. On par with senators.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

This article refers to the top 350 companies in the US. It says it right at the top of the article.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Both the articles do refer to the top 350 companies, you're right. But refering to something is not the same as the article being about something. Read the rest of it, the ratio of ceo pay to worker pay is not based on the pay of the 350 top ceos. You can do better my friend

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Lmao please read your article. That ratio is referring to those companies. If that ratio referred to all CEOs, then that would amount to more income than what exists in this entire country combined. Don't talk down to people unless you are sure you are right. Looking at the sources first is a good start. Or just don't talk down to people at all.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No one is talking down to anyone, don't try the victim card my friend its just a conversation. Look the point is the whole article is not based on the top 350 companies, it makes other points. The fact that worker wages have stayed stagnant while ceo pay has risen is a fact idk where the confusion is coming in.

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

" You can do better" is considered talking down in any place I have ever been to. But you knew that. The statistics you were referencing in that article were based on those 350 companies and the author was being deliberately misleading. Also know as lying.

I share a concern that worker's wages have stagnated. I'm a worker ffs. I just don't think lying is a the best way to address the topic. Almost like they do it on purpose to get people fighting so the true problem doesn't get solved. Just a theory, of course.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Again who is fighting? "You can do better" is not a put down where I come from, its more of a motivational sentiment. Like "come on lets go bro you can do better". I love when people have good debate but the first link you posted was literally the first search on google. So imo you could of done better. Now the .gov link is very interesting. Honestly I'm not here to argue about min wage increase, I think gov intervention is anything is misguided, but the idea that it "hurts the works" is just a cliche. I don't see it as lying if the main topic of an article is to express the idea that ceo pay has risen by a lot while worker pay has stayed stagnant. That's really the point of this whole discussion. The numbers are just numbers the fact that ceo pay has risen &worker pay hasn't is the issue. Whether raising min wage fixes it, i highly doubt it, doesnt really concern me because i dont see it as a lasting solution even if it does. The issue of class inequality goes much deeper, its not going to change it people make 12 or 15 per hour. The rich will get richer unless major things change.

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Again who is fighting" Our entire country. Left vs right or workers vs the "rich" or whoever else. It's constant.

Your "you can do better" comment was on a different comment thread and unrelated to the link I posted in the other thread, after you went on about my supposed misunderstanding of YOUR link. If you're really trying to act like you weren't talking down to me, then I am calling you an outright liar. Meanwhile, I don't use Google, but what relevance would that be? My original link was very close to the official statistics.

Anyways, the problem with dishonest articles is that CEO pay has not actually gone up anywhere near that scale. Misrepresenting that is dishonest and doesn't solve anything. It creates a resistance, and fighting amongst the masses. If they can't be honest, then they shouldn't write anything.

My issue with pushing minimum wage up in tiny increments is that it doesn't actually help the working class poor. Strong labor unions were what brought us out of the dark times, and we need them again. Pushing up minimum wage is just a way to keep the poor from unionizing again. And to keep them shutting up long enough to get a new leader elected. And those big businesses will thrive while tiny businesses suffer and shut down under rising minimum wages.

Meanwhile, if the CEOs of those top 350 companies worked for free, it would barely change the financial position of the employees. Dozens to hundreds of extra dollars a year. But if the government returned the portion they tax from corporations to the businesses' employees, it would give millions to employees of some companies. So who is really hurting the poor?

Final thought. If you want to see who is actually getting rich from corporations, look at the major shareholders and financial institutions (that hold large portions of shares) and remember that their tax rate for capital gains is lower than the marginal tax rate of a middle class wage worker. Remember that neither republican or democrat tries to change this. Neither side, not even socialists like Bernie, have tried to raise cap gains tax to match income tax. Why is that?

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I guess I should post a link instead of just saying stuff... https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Chief_Executive_Officer_(CEO)/Salary

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's just one site tho which also happens to be the first thing that comes up when you google ceo pay scale. Here's another, https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/chief-executive-officer-salary Shows much different information with average ceo salary at 600,000 on the low end. Also the pay scale for ceo varies a good amount depending on what city you search in with bigger cities obviously having a much higher pay scale. But look we can post different websites all day the fact that ceo pay has risen while worker pay has stayed almost stagnant is the point. Not even mentioning that business now pay less taxes, along with the rich, etc.

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well since we both used bad links, let's rely on the official statistics: https://www.bls.gov/oes/2017/may/oes111011.htm. So barely above 200k. Not impressive.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That figure may not include stock options or bonuses. Also, a lot of ceos report 0 for income so maybe that could impact the numbers. Ceo pay ratio is an interesting thing to look at, https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/10/14/the-ceo-pay-ratio-data-and-perspectives-from-the-2018-proxy-season/

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This link is referring to publicly traded companies. Not all companies. Again, this looks like an effort to deliberately mislead the reader.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also this, https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/ Shows CEO pay raise compared to workers. Do you want me to post more articles just lmk.

[–]Only71Genders 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This link also refers to the top 350 companies...

[–]dcjogger[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Does anyone get the feeling that anyone supporting the police state now is a paid NSA shill?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

FUCK NIGGERS I HATE THEM

[–]dcjogger[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Americans love their beloved government overlords. The only time Americans get angry when the Gestapo shoots an unarmed American in the back is when the officer is black.

Americans don't care if they must give their fingerprints to travel if Muslims do, too.

One reason Americans hate freedom now is that the media runs horrifying stories about a dangerous problem and downplays concerns about tyranny.

Another reason Americans hate liberty and personal responsibility now is because Americans think that they are all helpless victims and freedom only benefits others and tyranny only applies to other people.

If you don't wear shorts, you won't care if shorts are illegal.

If you're white, you might think that you're immune from the police state.

If guns are banned, Americans think that they will be safe, but Americans don't realize that gun bans apply to everyone.

Americans scream everything must be banned because someone might be hurt.

Every problem has a knee-jerk reaction, but no one thinks about the unintended consequences.

If wages are low, Americans scream that the minimum wage must be raised. No one cares about prices rising or businesses closing.

If US exports are expensive, Americans say a trade war should be started. No one cares about prices increasing or exports falling.

If smokers die, Americans insist smoking must be illegal. No one cares about freedom or tobacco workers.

If regulations kill the economy, Americans say that there must be welfare.

If food stamps lead to obesity, Americans scream sodas must be banned.

If welfare raises the debt, Americans say taxes must be increased.

The problem with decrees is that eventually you end up living in a prison.

Now that straws are illegal, do you honestly believe tyranny has stopped? Do you feel safer? Do you think toothpicks or mouthwash will never be banned?

Americans don't realize problems don't require force. Americans do not understand that the free market can provide solutions.

Why not allow workers to decide what wages they will accept?

Why not boycott imports if you hate free trade?

Why not allow nonprofits to educate people about the dangers of cigarettes?

Can't charities provide welfare for the poor?

Was there a minimum wage, trade war, smoking laws, and food stamps in 1910? Did Americans just starve to death in 1910?

Is using force and putting people in jail the only possible solution to any problem?

What country is this?

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Overall dc i think you just need some new friends my man

[–]dcjogger[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The US is collapsing.

Americans say the US debt must be increased because debt worked out so well for Rome.

Americans scream that the US should have wars because the USA needs more refugees.

Americans say tyranny is the American way.

Americans think trade wars are good because Chinese products are too cheap and tariffs will fund US wars, debt, and tyranny while killing US exports.

Americans insist Obama was an asshole for destroying the US with wars, debt, and tyranny, but Trump is a god because he loves wars, debt, and the police state.

Americans are so retarded that they think government overlords should have rent control instead of getting rid of regulations that drive up housing costs.

Americans believe anyone who wears a costume, badge, and a gun is a saint.

Instead of losing weight, Americans think the government should make a decree forcing airlines to provide large seats that will drive up ticket prices.

Americans feel that bankers who committed fraud should receive billion dollar bailouts.

Americans say being a Nazi or being a Communist are the only political options.

Americans insist the only possible way to solve any problem is force.

Americans say the US should build a wall to keep Americans IN because closed borders helped make North Korea rich.

Americans scream war is good because Libertarians oppose wars.

Americans would rather beg for government job-killing decrees that raise the minimum wage instead of starting a business or learning a skill.

Americans believe fighting the British during the Revolutionary War was a huge mistake.

Americans scream that the government spends your money better than you can.

Americans say killing chickens to eat is okay, but eating cats must be illegal.

Americans insist that restaurants would have a vested interest in killing their customers if the government did not require businesses licenses.

Americans fought the Nazis, but have now become Nazis.

Americans are so stupid that they say baseball hats must be outlawed to help the state meet their private prison quotas.

Americans swear government decrees made the USSR successful.

Americans say George Washington was a faggot for supporting freedom.

Americans think the desires of neighbors are more important than the rights of property owners.

Americans believe withdrawing less than $10,000 from your own bank account should be illegal because you might use drugs.

Americans insist protests must be illegal because protesters might break windows.

Americans feel that the government must close newspapers to prevent fake news.

Americans say the government should shut down churches because there might be terrorism.

Americans scream guns must be banned because blacks might buy guns to kill white people.

Americans feel being groped by the TSA is good because they have nothing to hide.

Americans say NSA wiretapping is fine because it is just metadata.

Americans believe forfeiture is okay because the police have been doing it for years.

Americans insist torture is great because other countries do it.

Insanity.

The USA feels like it is committing suicide.

How can Americans sleep at night now or look in a mirror without feeling utterly disgusted and ashamed?