And just like that...

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[–]indianusjones 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Last I heard the sanctuary cities were welcoming immigrants.

The city leaders certainly are to (if history is any guide) assuage votes. The people, according to the research, certainly are not.

What I hate more than anything about the MAGA Rightists is that they just make shit up.

You're correct but this is a statement about tactics and separate from the "whether or not cities are welcoming immigrants" statement.

Whatever they wish were true, is as good as true...

The rest of your post is just a derivative of the above and not germane.

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

The city leaders certainly are to (if history is any guide) assuage votes. The people, according to the research, certainly are not.

Then the meme is still wrong, becuase if your premise is true, then "just like that liberals never wanted immigrants in their cities".

You're correct but this is a statement about tactics and separate from the "whether or not cities are welcoming immigrants" statement.

The claim that sanctuary cities are unwelcoming was pulled from thin air. It's a lie worthy of Trump himself. The last time I checked, a mayor is still a credible spokesman for their city - certainly not Cher, sorry.

[–]indianusjones 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

HopeThatHelps has destroyed his credibility: I've already addressed this and he seems to either not understand the meme itself completely or is purposefully mis-representing facts:

"just like that liberals never wanted immigrants in their cities".

That's not what the meme states. The meme says, And just like that, liberals didn't want illegal immigrants in their cities." This is not the same statement.

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The meme asserts liberals 'flip flopped' on the issue, but your own source suggests "the people" have held a consistent view on immigration. The meme is a "gotcha" that gets nothing.

[–]indianusjones 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The meme depicts a very recent phenomena, i.e. immigrant transfer to immigration cities.

To be clear, we should poll those for more immigration not directly on the question, but on whether or not they approve of the known fallout.

Specifically I mean higher crime, homeless rates, larger classroom sizes, etc.

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

OK lets simplify, aside from the populist bellwether that is septuagenarian pop singer Cher, what evidence is there that liberals have pulled an about face on immigration as a result of Trumps offer to offload immigrants in their cities?

[–]indianusjones 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Now you're talking. Excellent, and I mean that sincerely!

I have, as I happily admit zero evidence that liberals have pulled an about-face on immigration given this proposal. On this basis the meme is totally baseless and without merit.

I consistently contend, however, that liberals (many positions with which I agree) have not thought the issue through.

Forgive my crassness, but my guess is that many of them are young and haven't paid taxes for 25 years only to find their district's education decline precipitously.

Look, when I go to the doctor's and I see people who I know damn well are illegal aliens getting better health care than I do I get pretty upset.

P.S. "septuagenarian pop singer Cher" <-- that's hilarious.

[–]HopeThatHalps 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I consistently contend, however, that liberals (many positions with which I agree) have not thought the issue through.

I'm sort of a nihilist liberal, the main reason I don't mind immigration is because they dillute the unkilled labor market, and by doing so force able bodied people to "get skills", which results in 1) a greater sum overall skill, when a person who can read and write realizes that maybe their talents are being wasted collecting trash and pulling weeds, and 2) unskilled labor gets even cheaper, which drives down the overall cost of living. So my overall view about socialized healthcare, so long as we're benefiting from cheaper low skilled labor, it makes sense to protect the investment and not incentivize them to turn to crime. If you have an "every man is an island" poltical philosophy, then all these islands will perpetualy be at war with one another.

Look, when I go to the doctor's and I see people who I know damn well are illegal aliens getting better health care than I do I get pretty upset.

I'd be interested in seeing a study that shows this to be true, because ultiamtely this is anecdotal. It might just be that you are healthier than the illegal immigrant you witnessed getting quality healthcare.

[–]indianusjones 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

force able bodied people to "get skills"

In my case I'm IT (enterprise UNIX/Linux grade) and got clobbered after 25 years by a different kind of immigrant: 100,000 H1B Visas p/yr.

I'd be interested in seeing a study that shows this to be true, because ultiamtely this is anecdotal.

True. Here you go.

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

H1B Visas

That's a different issue from border security, sanctuary cities. In that case it's the big software companies advocating for the influx of cheap labor. It's not so much about letting people in as it is openly inviting them to come.

True. Here you go.

Just looking at the first article:

"Noncitizens and their children were less likely to have health insurance and a regular source of care and had lower use than the U.S. born. The foreign born or non-English speakers were less satisfied and reported lower ratings and more discrimination."

This seems to contradict your point that they were getting golden treatment, and supports the idea that you're own reported experience might have been subject to confirmation bias; you noticed one brown looking fellow getting good service while perhaps not noticing many more who didn't, and possibly never will.

[–]indianusjones 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We're done. I've shown evidence, you've shown conjecture. I provided evidence that the populace is not happy about illegal aliens.

The meme being wrong may be technically true--just like Native American Indians once welcomed the white settlers before they utterly trashed the Indian tribes.

Update: Holy shit, you stooped so low as to misrepresent the facts themselves! You said:

"just like that liberals never wanted immigrants in their cities".

That's not what the meme states. The meme says, And just like that, liberals didn't want illegal immigrants in their cities." This is not the same statement.

C'mon, man. Read what I sent you. Your credibility is null--I can't trust you to correctly process information.

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"just like that liberals never wanted immigrants in their cities".

You didn't get it, I was intentionally rephrasing the meme to fit with the study you linked to; "didn't want" vs. "never wanted".

As I said, the meme tries to accuse liberals of being NIMBY's, but that's intenlectually dishonest. What is the evidence for this "flip flop"? Cher?!

The mayors of several "sanctuary cities" are openly welcoming of immigrants, yesterday, today and the next day. It's too bad the courts will strike down Trump's attempt to offload immigrants in sanctuary cities, because it sounds to me like what Trump wants to give away, the sancturary cities are willing to receive.

[–]indianusjones 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like to stay on the topic at hand recognizing recent events, yes.