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[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It doesn't matter, the fact is that OP's meme is incorrect.

[–]indianusjones 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It doesn't matter, the fact is that OP's meme is incorrect.

But why is OP's meme incorrect? That's the point of this entire thread--you must justify your position.

If we're moving away now from the politician's response to the original post we're now in red herring argument fallacy territory because you've shifted the argument.

Are you now understanding why opponents on both sides of most debates get frustrated when people say, "it doesn't matter, (distraction here)" or say, "embryos are humans too" without providing evidence for that fact?!!?

Is your post a troll? Did I not point to evidence to the contrary?

How can you read through this entire thread and not know that you need supporting evidence for your claim? Stupid? Lazy? Please help me understand.

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But why is OP's meme incorrect?

OP's meme is not a friendly call for debate, it's an accusation of liberals being hypocrites. It's demonstrably wrong, it's pathetic, end of story.

[–]indianusjones 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

it's pathetic, end of story

Oh, no, we don't get off that easy.

OP's meme is not a friendly call for debate, it's an accusation of liberals being hypocrites.

Again, we didn't offer evidence for this claim...we could easily verify whether or not you are correct by simply asking the author.

Let's say for the sake of discussion you're right. Yes, under this premise, the meme is not friendly and yes, it's an accusation of liberals being hypocrites.

But that doesn't mean he's wrong.

It's conjecture here that if we flat-out asked liberals whether or not they welcome more immagrants in their city they would likely say, "yes."

But if we asked them in a poll about topics we know are a direct result of immigration (remember, we had mass immigration in the 1880's, the 1920's, and since the 1970's), we're going to find they don't want the fallout from an influx of immigration.

So, ideologically the liberals want immigration but ideology doesn't put food on the table.

Again, I ask the next time you post that you provide facts to support and don't give me this bullshit:

it's pathetic, end of story

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're trying to move the goal posts. This post is not about the nuances of the immigration debate, its about an idiotic meme which the link I posted above handily proves to be false.

[–]indianusjones 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Don't switch this around; your original post asked how Cher's tweet is germane to the immigration debate followed by (after my inference explanation) your link to an article aggregating politicians' responses to the Trump proposal:

But what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

and

Nevertheless, https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjU4tv5ltXhAhUFvJ4KHZevC3IQzPwBCAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.axios.com%2Fwhat-theyre-saying-mayors-sanctuary-cities-welcome-trumps-latest-immigration-idea-1829d5c7-6577-4644-8f40-bb582003da86.html&psig=AOvVaw2-TMvTjnN-TodVt3OYx6OE&ust=1555523557136146

So then you turn the debate to the accuracy of the meme:

It doesn't matter, the fact is that OP's meme is incorrect.

To which I point out that even if this were true you haven't stated facts to back your position followed by a lengthy post discussing why you should. Yes, I even intimated that you are either lazy or stupid for not doing so after all the comments prior and telling you for the second time that unfounded emotional statements won't cut it.

What do you do? Why, attack OP's (unverified) motives of course and try to shut down the discussion when you were called out:

OP's meme is not a friendly call for debate, it's an accusation of liberals being hypocrites. It's demonstrably wrong, it's pathetic, end of story.

So now you're accusing me of moving the goal posts!

You're trying to move the goal posts.

...and trying to slip away from the debate (recall it was you who posted the "we're city leaders and we love illegal aliens" quote article) by saying that you're not debating about immigration at all when the record will show you in point of fact were discussing the immigration debate:

This post is not about the nuances of the immigration debate

Then you say:

[this is about a meme] which the link I posted above handily proves to be false

NO. IT. DOESN'T. I showed that the population's view differs considerably from the quotes cited in your article and I stated clearly that those who made them have a vested interest in doing so. I said:

To this I'd say you're right--I read an article that read about a politician slamming the President for the idea but careful to also say that the immigrants are welcome.

When we ask the population [link to Gallup poll], however, we find that they feel immigration should be reduced. I highly suspect that the outcome would be sharper if we factored for race. Notice I'm not racist, just stating the numbers.

What I've given you is the courtesy of pointing out the fallacies in your "argument" (lack of supporting facts, red herring, etc.) and what I've received in return is slippery tactics and a completely unfounded claim that your article serves as definitive "proof."

I don't mind quality debate but you need to clearly state your opinion, provide facts to support your opinion, and not slip the debate around to other areas. When you do the above your credibility goes to zero, and I'm being charitable.

Correction: you will see my link to the Immigration Gallup Pole in the comments above, not in response to your post. Here's a synopsis of research on how Americans feel about immigration.

Addendum: Presuming you're not trolling me, please, for the love of God, understand the principles of good debate.

Correction II: No, wait, I did refer you to the Gallup pole in my response directly to you; apparently you were too goddamn lazy to read it.

[–]HopeThatHalps 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cher doesn't speak for any city. Cher has no relevance to the issue whatsoever. Mayors do speak for their city, more than anyone, and mayors have expressed welcome.