I support every human

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[–]magnora7 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (11 children)

Amen to that!

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I don't know why you support this M7. What I'd say to you is the same as I've said to AXXA, here: https://saidit.net/s/memes/comments/910z/i_support_every_human/xahq

[–]StillLessons 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Your argument is a partisan argument, Socks. To believe what you believe, you must believe that the institutions you are supporting are promoting the ideals they claim to promote. The evidence does not suggest that to be the case. Western institutions are obviously involved in shedding blood in many countries. As just one example, to say that the same institutions supporting the Saudi bloodbath in Yemen are now the good guys in Ukraine is a flagrant slap in the face of reality. People around the world are suffering today under warfare and violence, and the institutions you are promoting as heroes in this conflict have their hands beyond deep in the blood coming from those conflicts. You're not arguing for peace; you're arguing for the bloody victory of your allies. To be understated, I find your argument distasteful.

The meme starting this thread is the statement of a universal reality. Populations suffer because the power structures we allow to grow within our midst are comprised of venal, evil, narcissistic, and violent men and women. This is true of all power structures. The greater the scale of the structure, the more pronounced the evil radiating from it becomes. The people always suffer, on all sides.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In your arguments you continue to expand to the bigger problems of the military industrial complexes, about which you are in total agreement. Indeed, we should be equally concerned about Saudi/US/Israel war crimes in Yemen, and Syria/US/Israel/ISIS/Russian/Turkish war crimes in Syria, and Serbian war crimes in the Balkans, and Israel/US war crimes in Palestine and Lebanon, and US war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Myanmar war crimes in their country, and the war crimes in many African countries, and the endless list of war crimes in the rest of the world. AND what can be done to challenge this cycle of war crimes? Not much after they are committed. So there is now an important moment to support Ukraine, support the peace talks, support refugees, support the removal of Russian aircraft, missiles and talks from the skies and field, support Ukrainians with food and medicine and water, and safe passage to the boarder. All of this does not expand the war. It reduces Putin &c's legitimacy and brings closer the potential for their withdrawal. We can support Ukraine without supporting the military industrial complexes.

[–]StillLessons 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

We can support Ukraine without supporting the military industrial complexes.

You are specifically arguing to support NATO. Anyone who goes to Ukraine and provides direct humanitarian assistance on the ground to the people there, I fully support. Supporting NATO, however, is not that. NATO is a military industrial complex, full stop. You and I also absolutely disagree regarding their "defensive" posture. Too many countries have been bombed with NATO involvement in the name of "regime change" for me to buy NATO being defensive. NATO is the implicit muscle (with occasional explicit demonstrations of their willingness to enforce their will) behind the imperial Davos project. I support neither Russian imperialism nor Davos imperialism. To suggest the latter is not involved in Ukraine is either naive or disingenous.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We can support Ukrain without supporting the military industrial complexes AND can benefit from countries that are within NATO, whereas NATO itself is not involved in the defense of Ukraine (not officially). Thus it doesn't matter if anyone supports NATO at the moment, as they are not involved directly in the war. And if you want to make claims about NATO abuses, provide links. You'll find Russian and Serbian propaganda against Nato - lots of sources. And you'll find that NATO did it's job to defend innocent civilians in the past, in Serbia and Yugoslavia. Indeed, this is the purpose of NATO: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_133127.htm But again - support for Ukraine can exclude all discussions about NATO at the moment, as they're not directly involved militarily.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Socks, the sentiment is people just want to live their own lives and not be forced to spend them for the ambitions of rich and powerful men. It's a nice thought.

I do support spending Ukranian lives to bleed Russia. I don't like their government, I mean even less than the American Imperium. It's still a shitty thing to do, I'm not in the company of angels here. Those people who are being used as pawns in a global conflict deserved to determine their own future instead of this.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I agree with most of this, though perhaps you meant to include 'not' in this phrase: "I do support spending Ukranian lives". And I do not think that's what's happening. We see in the interviews of Ukrainians that they are choosing to remain and fight, many of them choosing to remain in Kyiv. They are a wonderful people, and know what: they're on their own. NATO, EU, US, and others will not fight for them (though will send weapons, and 20,000 have volunteered). The problem is this: we can appropriately protest against the military industrial complex and its aggressive abuses at all times. But when innocent civilians are being slaughtered in the thousands on our doorstep, we should help defend them against tyrany. They deserve it, and authoritarian regimes must be stoppped when they do this, or as we seen, the cancer will continue. If we support 'the people', we support Ukraine (as do many Russians).

[–]sluggish_test 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have seen this reasoning within my group of pro-Putin friends. They try to discredit the Ukrainian defence by putting it in the same basket as the invading forces, then conveniently forgetting what the Russian army is doing in the first place. Another example they have used is that the Ukrainian government is bad, because they put an opposition leader under house arrest. Ignoring for now the circumstances of the house arrest itself, but I'm sure the people would prefer that over what's happened to Navalny. Fighting is the only way to prevent that of course.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I accidentally left out "not" in the beginning. "people just want to live their own lives and not be forced to spend them for the ambitions of rich and powerful men"

Yes, I support spending other people's lives. I'm just honest with myself that it's a really shitty thing to do.

fight

Inducing the peasantry to fight is not noble. Till you put your own ass on the line, you're okay with spending other people's lives too.

In the grand scheme of things, I think we'll be better off for this, but it's truly, truly a sin.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Putin's soldiers and many Russians also don't want the war in Ukraine, while they are in this case also used by Putin &c for the "ambitions of rich and powerful men". Sanctions are helping put an end to this. Defensive measures, peace talks, anti-air and anti-tank missiles, Turkinsh drones &c are helping defend Ukraine from a few rich assholes who are forcing the peasants to slaughter innocent Ukrainians. (Sorry to continue the already long thread, but I just want to show how your argumements can be used to defend Ukrainians against the oligarchs.)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Careful believing that propaganda. I see no evidence the war is unpopular in Russia, quite the opposite.

There's also something to this human shield thing Putin is mentioning. Kinda understandable though, if the Ukranian government let the citizens go then the Russians would just pulp their base of operations.

Turkinsh drones

Are hot garbage. Russians already have effective counter measures they aren't even bothering to deploy. But all this makes the war more expensive for Russia. That's the whole shebang right there. They're gonna get Ukraine but we're going to try to make it a pyrrhic victory.

Unfortunately the bigger picture is that the Russian nuclear arsenal is in dire straights and they need Ukraine to remain a nuclear power and a player in the global stage instead of a gas station. There is no price too high.

But we won't let them slaughter those poor Ukranians cheaply!

Imagine if the US broke up and decades later China was trying to stop someone from unifying it again, giving lethal aid to Texas to fight the Union. Similar situation here.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (38 children)

So the "all lives matter" brigade are now applying their logical falacies to the slaughter of Ukraine? (If so, they can FUCK OFF.)

Yes, military industrial complexes are evil. What matters is that their abuses are addressed when they happen, like NOW. Support the UN. Support NATO. Support democracy. Support anti-war protestors in Russia. Support Ukraine. Or support Putin by making misleading images like this.

[–]filbs111 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Support the UN? Start paying attention to the UN!

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (32 children)

All lives matter.

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." - This is what you believe, please don't be a shill

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

A shill for what? Ukrainians?

Negating the support for one thing or group by noting that this would be a way of not supporting other groups is a common propaganda technique. And while we see raw videos of the bombing of innocent civilians in Ukraine, it's really mean of 29 Saiditors to vote in favor of this propaganda.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (18 children)

All lives matter, including the Russians you think are so evil.

A shill is an accomplice to a hawker, unknowingly or aware of the scheme.

The slaughter of ethnic Russians in Donbass should be talked about. The slaughter of Armenians in the recent conflict there should be talked about.

The fact that Zelensky is a closeted homosexual should be talked about, and the large number of Jews in power across the globe, I think even rabbis are talking about it.

Don't be a shill, please. I'm asking nicely here. Don't shill for globalists warmongerers. Putin is wrong. NATO is wrong.

Humans are wonderful creatures.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

These comments support Putin's war crimes. My response here is the same as my response to AXXA: https://saidit.net/s/memes/comments/910z/i_support_every_human/xahq

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

Your comments support NATOs warmongering. Why are you in support of NATO? Do you like the dead children in the ME, killed by US drones and missiles? Do you like ISIS, the out of control Muslim mercenaries hired by Mossad, on behalf of the US?

Or, are you just a anti-slav? If so, then what disgusting racism.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Your comments support NATOs warmongering. Why are you in support of NATO?

Noted here - https://saidit.net/s/memes/comments/910z/i_support_every_human/xahq - and easily explained as a way supporting the defense of the North Atlantic. Defence against tyrants is essential, also for the sake of Russians and Russian protestors of the war. Everyone knows most Russians are not to blame for this.

Do you like the dead children in the ME, killed by US drones and missiles?

This is not a reference to NATO.

Do you like ISIS, the out of control Muslim mercenaries hired by Mossad, on behalf of the US?

This is unrelated to my comments or the image, or NATO. (And no reasonable person supports ISIS, Mossad &c.)

Or, are you just a anti-slav? If so, then what disgusting racism.

Read again: https://saidit.net/s/memes/comments/910z/i_support_every_human/xahq You are "anti-Slav" if you support Putin's slaugtering of innocant Ukrainians like this, by saying that you don't support Ukraine, or the organzations that help Ukraine. And look at the information about the 10s of thousands of Russians who've been arrested and imprisoned and fined for proptesting. They do not support this image. They support their brothers and sisters in Ukraine.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

Wow, I've never seen someone shill so hard. You are skilled.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Again - am I shilling for Ukraine? I am respectfully answering your questions and countering your false accusations. If you don't want answers, don't ask.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

If you don't want to be told you are a POS shill, then don't shill.

You shill for the democrats and the globalists who fund them. Turn around and cry. Are you a British woman? You remind me of British women.

[–]grassfed 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I don't think so, Jason and me called him out long ago

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I was once an active participant on here under a different handle.

u/socks is a forum slider. One of the best. It has many alts. Don't pretend otherwise.

u/JasonCarswell may be a fat old man, but he's an authentic person using this site. Socks reveals absolutely nothing about themselves, and has done nothing but make s/shitpostnews as well as run off many well intentioned users.

Moo.

[–]AXXA 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

don't be a shill for NATO imperialism and bloodthirsty CIA warmongers

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

AXXA - look up what NATO did in Serbia to stop the war crimes there. Look up the history of the need for NATO. Look up raw videos of what's happeing in Ukraine. Look up the history of UN peacekeeping troops. Look up the right-wing 'all lives matter' campaign against minorities. There are few other circumstances where it's so bloody obvious what's happening with the slaughter of innocent civiliams in Ukraine. How dare anyone think this OP's image is appropriate in this context of war crimes. How dare anyone think: meh - I don't support any of them because war is bad. That's support for Putin, and support for war crimes. It's insane for 42 Saiditors to support these abuses. It's one of the worst aspects of Saidit. It's one of the reasons normal people see Saidit as as a bunch of "extremist schizo dumbasses". Many here don't understand or want to understand important humanitarian issues. There is absolutely nothing redeemable about it. Perhaps I could say this in a more polite manner, but it's better not to mince words. This is a low point in Saidit's history. It can't be clearer what's good and evil in this slaughter of innocent civilians. It can't be dismissed with oversimplifications like that in the OP's image. Fuck everything about it. Here's the crux of the fallacy of this image: if you support 'the people' then you support democracy, and you will support democratic counrties, and you will support organizations of those democratic countries (NATO, UN, &c), because if you don't support the approaches of those democratic countries to defend themselves against the war crimes of autocratic regimes, you not only help those tyrants commit war crimes, you also harm Russians, and the other people by spreading fallacious propaganda like this.

[–]hfxB0oyA 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

It can't be clearer what's good and evil

also:

oversimplifications

Dude, life is painted in shades of grey. Just because you or I say a thing, that does not make it the absolute correct statement.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I am not claiming to know anything. I've explained the faulty logic and propaganda value in this image. Logic, rather than knowledge, is all one needs to understand the image. (Eg: if you support 'the people', you would support Ukraine, NATO, UN &c. Not to do so is support for tyrants.)

[–]StillLessons 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

(Eg: if you support 'the people', you would support Ukraine, NATO, UN &c. Not to do so is support for tyrants.)

This is the meat of your argument: Ukraine [=the Zelensky government], NATO, UN, etc are the legitimate representatives of "the people", around the world.

That argument is being litigated over the past 14 years (I'm using the 2008 collapse of western financial markets as a point from which many people began to open their eyes that "the western system" absolutely serves itself at the expense of the citizens of those countries). You are arguing that the institutions you list represent "the good guys" and that anyone suspicious of them and of their motives is by definition "the bad guys". Yours is a simplistic and black-and-white argument, and there's now 14 years of evidence that it is wrong, in both the moral and objective senses of that word.

To say what Russia and Putin are doing is evil is simple. I agree. The argument comes when your side says Russia's attack was "unprovoked". I happen to agree that what the Russian security state is doing is wrong, both morally and practically. But it sure as hell wasn't unprovoked. NATO and the Davos set have been trying to get Putin and the Russian security state to take this bait for 8 years. They have now succeeded. Their motivations for provoking Russia to invade Ukraine are obvious: they want Russia to bleed itself out so they can re-establish the "slave Russia" of the 1990s, which was a very ugly time for average Russians, not for the oligarchs. They also want access to the natural resources of Ukraine (relatively untapped gas fields off of Crimea, for example), which would allow the Davos set to rid themselves of their obvious dependency on Russian energy resources.

The enemy of my enemy IS NOT MY FRIEND. Supporting NATO, etc is against our own interests, as freedom-seeking and peace-seeking citizens of the west. The biggest beneficiaries in the west of the past 3 weeks? Raytheon, Halliburton, etc. They are making serious bank. They do not represent me. I reject them completely.

There are two directions we can go from here: one, aim for peace and try to stop the bleeding, on all sides; two, escalate and make sure as many people die as possible, preferably into a future that has no end. I have never witnessed NATO seek the first direction, and I don't see you seeking it here.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. I agree with most of this. Regarding attempts for peace, and negotiations, this is been a daily process since before the war with several major countries. Everyone naturally wants peace and have tried to keep Putin from invading, and have tried to arrange a withdrawal, and have tried to arrange safe corridors for civilians to leave. In all cases, Putin has continued to slaughter innocent civilians. The support for Ukraine is not support for more war. Quite the opposite. And regarding NATO, they were needed years ago to defend innocent civilians in the Serbian war. Search NATO Serbia.

[–]RMaf 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

gO BACK TO rEDDiT FooL

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Says the alt account coward

[–]RMaf 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

you kiss your mother with that mouth? I lol'd at your "facts". It's literally the same "tagline" shit you hear on CNN. Either you are a drone or just plain stupid, and you can't fix stupid.

[–]sluggish_test 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah yes, instead be a shill for Putin's imperialism.

[–]StillLessons 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

A shill for what? Ukrainians?

I repeat what I have said for weeks. You are conflating the Zelensky government with "Ukrainians". The Russian invasion is wrong. I'm happy to agree with you on that. But it is not a simple substitution to say that "to support the Zelensky government is to support Ukrainians." I personally know Ukrainians who do not support Zelensky, even in the face of the invasion. You are erasing their voices by equating support for the current Ukrainian government with support for "Ukrainians". It's not that simple.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am not really doing that. I've not mentioned Zelensky in my arguments. What's important is that there has been a process of removing pro-Russian corruption from government since 2014, with massive protests at that time. That has been a herocis process. So Zelensky emerges from this protest movement. Know how to make him a real hero? Invade Ukraine and slaughter thousands of innocent civilians. If his role in government was questioned earlier, it is however not questioned now, as he leads a powerful resistence against tyrany. Even those who didn't like him - just like those who didn't like the shithead, Churchill - will have to agree that he's at least doing his job, and can be compared with Churchill, in the fight against authoritarian tyrany. This for the people. Not the leadership.

[–]grassfed 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

We are not supporting a pedo ring

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

^

(Russian mafia human trafficking is horrific.)

[–]StillLessons 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, military industrial complexes are evil. What matters is that their abuses are addressed when they happen, like NOW. Support the UN. Support NATO.

NATO is a military industrial complex. This is the root of the disagreement between us. Given that I witness NATO as such, and applying your statement that military industrial complexes are evil, I refuse to support the evil military industrial complex of NATO against the evil military industrial complex of Russia. Cheering on one asshole in a fight against another asshole is not productive, and yet it is precisely what you are arguing for.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think we need to be clear that the main function of NATO is: defense, not offence. Yes, we can agree that there are serious problems with NATO. Still, NATO, the US, the UN &c are NOT openly defending Ukraine. A NATO no-fly zone would have been very important for Ukraine, but that would have been arguably an act of war against Russia by NATO &c. So, NATO is not really part of the argument against Ukraine, as NATO is not supporting Ukraine. The main problem is that Ukraine needs support from countries within NATO - even if under the table - for the many problems of war crimes against Ukrainian civilians and their displacement.

[–]AnimeRespecter 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

I support russia

[–]jostiniane 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

holy based..

We all do brother.

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Don't say it loud or socks will come after you

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

Nah, fuck em

Nuke the lot

People are literally the worst

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Part of the problem is that this is not happening. Instead, innocent Ukrainians are dying and suffering. Sure, start over with a crispy shell of a planet. But until the, war crimes will make people - including you - suffer if there are no responses to them. I hope you'll have an opportunity to meet some of the Ukrainians moving into your district's council houses and neighbour's homes. They're lovely people. It will change your mind.

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Still no sense of humour

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Pakis are like that

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You know that calls for genocide are common on Saidit.

[–]_XEAL_ 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

How is this a meme?

[–]zyxzevn[S] 3 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

It is more like an anti-meme.

[–]aaarrgh 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, but you are part of a minority. We have to deal with NPCs, whose minds have given way to propaganda. And what can be done about that?

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I do not stand with humans.

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I think a certain user will complain about this meme