"Antifa"

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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

Many of the memes on Saidit are indeed right-wing, which is why I posted this (to start an unusual discussion).

[–]wristaction 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

This "antifa doesn't exist" meme is basically like a child pretending his blankie is an invisibility cloak. But, moreover, it's a rhetorical feint which is only made possible with the allyship of the ruling class: the corporate media which will not identify or problematize leftwing terrorism, the sponsorship of the political officials which leftwing terrorism serves and the federal law enforcement and justice system which will not prosecute.

I mean "white supremacism" is "just an idea" - no such thing exists as a National Association of White Supremacists - yet the system acts as if it's not only real but the predominant threat to the homeland. Which is why "antifa" is permitted to act as neo-Pinkertons against peaceful protesters who the state perceives as "white".

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I agree that there is no National Association of White Supremacists, with the exception of the KKK and other white supremacist groups around the country who are 'national'. But there are enough of these groups that one can see collectively as 'white supremicist' groups. Antifa is a specific name for a type of group that does not exist. There aren't any significant 'antifa' groups in the US, by contrast with the KKK and similar groups. If you want to refer to the BLM protestors as anti-facists, that's much more accurate than 'antifa', which is a term coined by right-wing propaganda groups, agencies, and news madia. Infantilizing the denial of an antifa movement also doesn't help the argument. If you want to offer a superior, parent-like approach, provide appropriate evidence of a substantial 'antifa' group (without using obvious right-wing propaganda websites), rather than assume that I would think you are an authority on the matter.

[–]StrategicTactic 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/17/fbi-antifa-real-thing/

https://phillyantifa.org/

https://antifascistnetwork.org/get-involved/

https://itsgoingdown.org/join-antifa-noise-brigade/

https://www.rosecityantifa.org/

https://antifascistnews.net/tag/antifa/

https://www.facebook.com/ANTIFACANADA/

https://atlantaantifa.org/

https://torchantifa.org/

And that was just what I found in a 5 minute search- and is only those with open websites.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Very good to see these links. As I read through them, I am not seeing much evidence of a signifcant national presence, as these are relatively small websites, and most of them provide primarily local support. I'll see if I can find more information via these links or elsewhere. Here are some of the problems with a national 'antifa' label:

As for the Washington Times, it's known as a right-wing disinformation and misinformation rag, an early specific example of which is: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2015/washington-times-has-history-hyped-stories-shoddy-reporting-and-failing-correct-errors

This is local, and not powerful nationally: https://phillyantifa.org/about/

This seems promising, albeit "anti-fascist", not antifa, and it's part of a long tradition in the UK (it's mainly unrelated to the US): https://antifascistnetwork.org/get-involved

This is for the few old people who remain on Facebook and who are in Canada (not in the US): https://www.facebook.com/ANTIFACANADA/

This is a teeny-tiny website that doesn't have much of a following or a way in which people can appropriately engage, and they are remarkably niche - " for anarchist, anti-fascist, autonomous anti-capitalist and anti-colonial": https://itsgoingdown.org/about/ They're also not antifa, bue "anti-fascist". I also don't know anyone who is an anarchist who is also an anti-fascist. It's really stupid to be both.

Naturally, Portland has a group that's happy to call themselves 'antifa: https://rosecityantifa.org/ This is where hippies go to die. They also have one of the few remaining large used bookstores (Powell's). Power to the people.

Anti-Fascist News looks like an informative site, AND NOT necessarily organizing for 'antfa': https://antifascistnews.net/tag/antifa/

This appears to be a proper "anti-fascist" news and fund raigins site, though it was founded as an anti-racist site, and does not necessarily organize antifa groups: https://torchantifa.org/history

[–]StrategicTactic 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Washington Times is indeed fake news. But not for the right, as your 2003 article implies. The vast majority of news is either left leaning or hard left. I also do not find the Southern Poverty Law Center to be any sort of authority on who is left or right, since they have ignored left-wing MURDER on their terrorist map and show no left wing violence at all, while advocating for several left wing causes. I posted the Washington Times as it was the first to come up regarding the FBI comments. Since you can find the same comments here:

https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/fbi-wray-antifa/2020/09/25/id/988920/

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/articleshow/78186479.cms

https://www.allsides.com/news/2020-09-17-1059/fbi-antifa-real-thing

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2020/09/18/fbi-director-faces-scrutiny-over-refusal-to-name-antifa-as-organization/

https://www.abc27.com/news/us-world/politics/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

https://www.news10.com/news/national/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-fbi-director-wray-national-security-officials-testify-on-homeland-security-threats

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/nation-world/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/507-5da2ec8e-37c4-44d5-ba63-9a30cf72940b

And more, I figured you would not have a problem with the quote.

Antifa is a specific name for a type of group that does not exist.

I believe we have now shown this to be false, as we have both congressional testimony saying otherwise and several examples of smaller groups.

This is local, and not powerful nationally

I will just quote the FBI director. '"Let me try to be as clear as I can about that: antifa is a real thing, it is not a fiction,” Wray declared, Newsweek reported. “We have seen organized tactical activity at the local regional level.

"We have seen antifa adherence coalescing and working together in what I would describe as small groups and nodes," Wray said, adding the bureau is conducting multiple investigations "into some anarchist violent extremists, some of whom operate through these nodes."

"We're going to be looking — and we have been looking — at their funding, their tactics, their logistics, their supply chains and we're going to pursue all available charges."

Wray added that the fact the FBI has found locally organized activity does not "diminish how serious and dangerous it is."

"We don't view how nationally organized something is as a proxy for how dangerous it is."'

There aren't any significant 'antifa' groups in the US, by contrast with the KKK and similar groups.

Naturally, Portland has a group that's happy to call themselves 'antifa: https://rosecityantifa.org/ This is where hippies go to die.

This comment shows that you recognize there is a significant 'antifa' group in the US.

Anti-Fascist News looks like an informative site, AND NOT necessarily organizing for 'antfa'

The goalpost was originally 'provide appropriate evidence of a substantial 'antifa' group (without using obvious right-wing propaganda websites)', not prove they are organizing online. That is known as moving the goalposts. I believe that your term 'substantial' is subjective, but the fact that a loose organization is substantial enough to have multiple websites of different chapters and even multiple informative sites dedicated to information FOR them, I believe sufficient proof that such is a widespread issue. In fact, the proof that such ideology has been surfacing now in other countries like Canada, is proof that such is not just national, but an international issue.

https://englishnews.org/2020/06/03/what-is-antifa-the-international-terrorist-organization-that-has-infiltrated-government-media-education/

This appears to be a proper "anti-fascist" news and fund raigins site, though it was founded as an anti-racist site, and does not necessarily organize antifa groups: https://torchantifa.org/history

https://torchantifa.org/chapters/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OK - some good information here. I am not sure if the Portland anti-fascists are a 'significant' group, by contrast with the KKK and similarly large groups (eg. with thousands of members). The Washington Times are famously "right-leaning", to a fault. I will read the links soon. Compared with a couple years ago, and the rise of BLM anti-racist groups, it seems there is a growing number of anti-fascist groups that are happy to be identified as 'antifa' even if this term is used to spread lies about the burning of shops, violence &c. I'll look at the website links soon.