"Antifa"

submitted by [deleted] from (files.catbox.moe)

all 51 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]angryturtle 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (42 children)

So what are you claiming, that antifa doesnt exist? That it hasnt routinely attacked and threatened American citizens it disagrees with, along with police tasked with enforcing law and order? That it hasnt been protected from the consequences of this activity by a corrupt oligarch funded media, politicians and court system?

It doesnt matter if antifa is one organization or many, if they are "loosely controlled" or any of the other media talking points pushed by this hostile elite and its useful idiots, what they engage in is the definition of terrorism, and if they arent held to account, we dont live in a civilized nation with the rule of law.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

Antifa exists, but as a small insignificant thing. They didn't have the resources to pull off nationwide protests. It's a false flag.

[–]madcow-5 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

They've had groups at every protest in my old city for like 3 or 4 straight years.

When the protests get big, it may not be the bulk of the protestors identifying as antifa, but card-carrying antifa are consistently the ones at the front throwing the first bricks.

Saying it's insignificant or a false flag is in direct contradiction to what I've literally seen with my own eyes.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Saying it's insignificant or a false flag is in direct contradiction to what I've literally seen with my own eyes.

I'm glad you mentioned it. I personally haven't seen it, that's why it seems so weird to me. I haven't talked to anyone involved, or invited to be involved... Just seems like if people were thinking of fucking shit up they'd ask old Muskie or someone I know at least.

Whereabouts do you live if you don't mind me asking?

[–]madcow-5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Philly is the city I was referring to. It's very much a thing. It's been a thing on the west coast for a while and circa 2016/2017 was mostly there, but it's blown up enough there're groups of it in effectively every major city. Philly gets them out flags and everything, at basically every protest.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I really like y'alls Yuengling beer. We don't get it here in Texas.

[–]madcow-5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's my favorite, and 80% of what I drank the last five years, but I moved to NH last year. We don't get it hear either, but I can drive like 20 minutes south to Mass and get it.

[–]adultmanhwa 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the most obvious proxy - the golden children of government - the chosen agent

[–][deleted]  (23 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

    All you have to do to be antifa is to be against fascism.

    The original Antifa was the terror wing of the KPD. They violently opposed fascists, liberals, monarchists, social democrats, anarchists, apolitical normies, etc. - pretty much anyone who wasn't a hardline Stalinist.

    Everybody should be against fascism.

    No, only the corrupt ruling class.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

    Are you referring to this?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany

    If so, the "original anti-fascists" were much earlier, known as the "international left" and later the Arditi del Popolo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arditi_del_Popolo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_and_anti-Fascist_violence_in_Italy_(1919%E2%80%931926)

    German fascism was initially a carbon copy of Italian fascism, and to understand anti-fascist groups, one should look at the fascist moments they were against. It is quintessentially non-American to be a fascist.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

    If so, the "original anti-fascists" were much earlier, known as the "international left" and later the Arditi del Popolo

    The German Antifa wasn't the first group to oppose fascists, but it was the first group to call itself "antifa" and use that logo. That group is what modern anti-fascists model themselves after.

    It is quintessentially non-American to be a fascist.

    Is it?

    https://patriotfront.us/manifesto/

    In its founding, the US, like the fascists, modeled itself after the Roman Republic, and was explicitly defined as a nation of "White persons of good character." Fasces feature prominently in the Lincoln and Washington Monuments, in the Oval Office, and in Congress (along with swastikas). The National Socialists also had a particular fondness for the American Indian.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

    Do you genuinely believe in what is written in that manifesto?

    Do you know that those quotations are taken out of context and reorgnized to distort the approaches of the American experiment?

    Do you support the group at patriotfront.us?

    Do you see similarities between Germany during 1933-39 and any development in the US? If so, when, and which developments?

    More info about that website: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Front

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

    Do you know that those quotations are taken out of context and reorgnized to distort the approaches of the American experiment?

    The United States was an experiment in pan-Europeanism. This idea that anyone in the world can be an American was invented by Jews mainly starting in the early 20th century. Read Culture of Critique.

    Do you see similarities between Germany during 1933-39 and any development in the US?

    No, but I do see many parallels with the Weimar Era.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

    I know of MacDonald's works and associated debates, and I agree with much of the social history he tries to address, though I do not necessarily agree with "evolutionary psychology" and some of his other points. I also don't see his approaches as necessarily white supremacist, but instead as a social history.

    Patriotfront.us is however certainly white supremacist, and spreading disinformation about US history that is dangerous, when one considers that this is helping develop domestic terrorism.

    The fairness doctrine should be reinstated.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

    Patriotfront.us is however certainly white supremacist, and spreading disinformation about US history that is dangerous, when one considers that this is helping develop domestic terrorism.

    To stop domestic terrorism in the US, just dismantle the FBI.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

    Really - dismantle the only agency going after the domestic terrorists? Without the FBI, domestic terrorism will continue.

    [–]angryturtle 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    All you have to do to be antifa is to be against fascism.

    Wrong. Antifa are groups that use violence and intimidation to silence political opponents THEY label as fascists, most of whom arent fascists, but even if they were it would be irrelevant. I'm generally against Fascism, but self described fascists have as much a right to political speech and assembly as self described communists, who I also oppose, and whose ideology killed far more people. If you are against these rights, then you are a fascist. Which means if we use your own criteria people would then be justified in using violence and intimidation to silence you. See how that works?

    [–]FreedomUltd 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

    I don't know if OP understands that the antifa in this cartoon is the children's excuse for something they did.

    Which is exactly right when it comes to the sad sacks who are trying to blame antifa for the things they're being arrested for now.

    Looking at some of the posts here it looks to me like they think the ghost is real, which is also perfect.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

    Many of the memes on Saidit are indeed right-wing, which is why I posted this (to start an unusual discussion).

    [–]wristaction 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

    This "antifa doesn't exist" meme is basically like a child pretending his blankie is an invisibility cloak. But, moreover, it's a rhetorical feint which is only made possible with the allyship of the ruling class: the corporate media which will not identify or problematize leftwing terrorism, the sponsorship of the political officials which leftwing terrorism serves and the federal law enforcement and justice system which will not prosecute.

    I mean "white supremacism" is "just an idea" - no such thing exists as a National Association of White Supremacists - yet the system acts as if it's not only real but the predominant threat to the homeland. Which is why "antifa" is permitted to act as neo-Pinkertons against peaceful protesters who the state perceives as "white".

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I agree that there is no National Association of White Supremacists, with the exception of the KKK and other white supremacist groups around the country who are 'national'. But there are enough of these groups that one can see collectively as 'white supremicist' groups. Antifa is a specific name for a type of group that does not exist. There aren't any significant 'antifa' groups in the US, by contrast with the KKK and similar groups. If you want to refer to the BLM protestors as anti-facists, that's much more accurate than 'antifa', which is a term coined by right-wing propaganda groups, agencies, and news madia. Infantilizing the denial of an antifa movement also doesn't help the argument. If you want to offer a superior, parent-like approach, provide appropriate evidence of a substantial 'antifa' group (without using obvious right-wing propaganda websites), rather than assume that I would think you are an authority on the matter.

    [–]StrategicTactic 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/17/fbi-antifa-real-thing/

    https://phillyantifa.org/

    https://antifascistnetwork.org/get-involved/

    https://itsgoingdown.org/join-antifa-noise-brigade/

    https://www.rosecityantifa.org/

    https://antifascistnews.net/tag/antifa/

    https://www.facebook.com/ANTIFACANADA/

    https://atlantaantifa.org/

    https://torchantifa.org/

    And that was just what I found in a 5 minute search- and is only those with open websites.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Very good to see these links. As I read through them, I am not seeing much evidence of a signifcant national presence, as these are relatively small websites, and most of them provide primarily local support. I'll see if I can find more information via these links or elsewhere. Here are some of the problems with a national 'antifa' label:

    As for the Washington Times, it's known as a right-wing disinformation and misinformation rag, an early specific example of which is: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2015/washington-times-has-history-hyped-stories-shoddy-reporting-and-failing-correct-errors

    This is local, and not powerful nationally: https://phillyantifa.org/about/

    This seems promising, albeit "anti-fascist", not antifa, and it's part of a long tradition in the UK (it's mainly unrelated to the US): https://antifascistnetwork.org/get-involved

    This is for the few old people who remain on Facebook and who are in Canada (not in the US): https://www.facebook.com/ANTIFACANADA/

    This is a teeny-tiny website that doesn't have much of a following or a way in which people can appropriately engage, and they are remarkably niche - " for anarchist, anti-fascist, autonomous anti-capitalist and anti-colonial": https://itsgoingdown.org/about/ They're also not antifa, bue "anti-fascist". I also don't know anyone who is an anarchist who is also an anti-fascist. It's really stupid to be both.

    Naturally, Portland has a group that's happy to call themselves 'antifa: https://rosecityantifa.org/ This is where hippies go to die. They also have one of the few remaining large used bookstores (Powell's). Power to the people.

    Anti-Fascist News looks like an informative site, AND NOT necessarily organizing for 'antfa': https://antifascistnews.net/tag/antifa/

    This appears to be a proper "anti-fascist" news and fund raigins site, though it was founded as an anti-racist site, and does not necessarily organize antifa groups: https://torchantifa.org/history

    [–]StrategicTactic 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Washington Times is indeed fake news. But not for the right, as your 2003 article implies. The vast majority of news is either left leaning or hard left. I also do not find the Southern Poverty Law Center to be any sort of authority on who is left or right, since they have ignored left-wing MURDER on their terrorist map and show no left wing violence at all, while advocating for several left wing causes. I posted the Washington Times as it was the first to come up regarding the FBI comments. Since you can find the same comments here:

    https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

    https://www.newsmax.com/politics/fbi-wray-antifa/2020/09/25/id/988920/

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/articleshow/78186479.cms

    https://www.allsides.com/news/2020-09-17-1059/fbi-antifa-real-thing

    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

    https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2020/09/18/fbi-director-faces-scrutiny-over-refusal-to-name-antifa-as-organization/

    https://www.abc27.com/news/us-world/politics/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

    https://www.news10.com/news/national/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-fbi-director-wray-national-security-officials-testify-on-homeland-security-threats

    https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/nation-world/fbi-director-says-antifa-is-an-ideology-not-an-organization/507-5da2ec8e-37c4-44d5-ba63-9a30cf72940b

    And more, I figured you would not have a problem with the quote.

    Antifa is a specific name for a type of group that does not exist.

    I believe we have now shown this to be false, as we have both congressional testimony saying otherwise and several examples of smaller groups.

    This is local, and not powerful nationally

    I will just quote the FBI director. '"Let me try to be as clear as I can about that: antifa is a real thing, it is not a fiction,” Wray declared, Newsweek reported. “We have seen organized tactical activity at the local regional level.

    "We have seen antifa adherence coalescing and working together in what I would describe as small groups and nodes," Wray said, adding the bureau is conducting multiple investigations "into some anarchist violent extremists, some of whom operate through these nodes."

    "We're going to be looking — and we have been looking — at their funding, their tactics, their logistics, their supply chains and we're going to pursue all available charges."

    Wray added that the fact the FBI has found locally organized activity does not "diminish how serious and dangerous it is."

    "We don't view how nationally organized something is as a proxy for how dangerous it is."'

    There aren't any significant 'antifa' groups in the US, by contrast with the KKK and similar groups.

    Naturally, Portland has a group that's happy to call themselves 'antifa: https://rosecityantifa.org/ This is where hippies go to die.

    This comment shows that you recognize there is a significant 'antifa' group in the US.

    Anti-Fascist News looks like an informative site, AND NOT necessarily organizing for 'antfa'

    The goalpost was originally 'provide appropriate evidence of a substantial 'antifa' group (without using obvious right-wing propaganda websites)', not prove they are organizing online. That is known as moving the goalposts. I believe that your term 'substantial' is subjective, but the fact that a loose organization is substantial enough to have multiple websites of different chapters and even multiple informative sites dedicated to information FOR them, I believe sufficient proof that such is a widespread issue. In fact, the proof that such ideology has been surfacing now in other countries like Canada, is proof that such is not just national, but an international issue.

    https://englishnews.org/2020/06/03/what-is-antifa-the-international-terrorist-organization-that-has-infiltrated-government-media-education/

    This appears to be a proper "anti-fascist" news and fund raigins site, though it was founded as an anti-racist site, and does not necessarily organize antifa groups: https://torchantifa.org/history

    https://torchantifa.org/chapters/

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    OK - some good information here. I am not sure if the Portland anti-fascists are a 'significant' group, by contrast with the KKK and similarly large groups (eg. with thousands of members). The Washington Times are famously "right-leaning", to a fault. I will read the links soon. Compared with a couple years ago, and the rise of BLM anti-racist groups, it seems there is a growing number of anti-fascist groups that are happy to be identified as 'antifa' even if this term is used to spread lies about the burning of shops, violence &c. I'll look at the website links soon.

    [–]wristaction 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Your reply is such an absurd double-down on the anti-anti-antifa agnosticism defense I'll pay it only one example:

    https://www.rosecityantifa.org/

    You see the emblem of the red and black banners? It's derived from the Weimar-era paramilitary group Antifascist Aktion, which in turn was the paramilitary wing of the German Communist Party.

    So your argument is that a group which operates within a historical lineage with prior far-left communist terrorist groups under a common flag and a uniform code of dress and tactics does not exist.

    Look: Here's an example of the existence of antifa from Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ellison-antifa-book/

    Your denialism is infantile. Just as antifa would exist prior to and independent of the attention given it by "right-wing propaganda groups, agencies, and news madia [sic]", your gaslit denialism would be as transparent, clumsy and infantile if I'd never pointed it out for you.

    "Right-wing propaganda groups, agencies, and news madia [sic]" did not jump into a time machine and name your terrorist group for you. These are your insignias, your organizations. Contrastingly, the term "white supremacism" is entirely developed by the left and it's use is exclusively as a term of abuse. There are groups which call themselves "antifa". There are no groups which call themselves "white supremacist". It's that simple. There is no such ideology as "white supremacy" which is affirmed by the people to whom the term is applied. "White supremacism" is the oppositional boogieman narrative you want to portray discussion of antifa as.

    When I speak about leftwing terrorism, I'll use a range of clarifying terms of various levels of specificity. But a good fallback is "antifa" because it readily corresponds in readers' minds with the group which marches in uniform black dress under the antifa banner.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I am grateful that you deign to respond.

    Regarding Rise City and other local groups, please see my response to the various anti-fascist websites noted above.

    A person holding an antifa book is not evidence of a national movement.

    No, anti-fascists are not communist terrorist groups. Were the WWII 'Allied Powers' communist?

    Your comments about "'white supremacism' is entirely developed by the left" and "There are no groups which call themselves 'white supremacist'" are wrong. There are many significant groups in the US that are quite proud to be and proud to call themselves "white supremacists", and they date back to the time of the US Civil War. We saw some of them in the terrorist attack on the Capitol Building.

    There is apparently no "middle-ground" here. You are denying facts, and supporting lies.

    [–]wristaction 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, then the cartoon makes no sense. The Capitol protesters had their own purposes for occupying the Capitol which made no reference whatsoever to the left's goons and they didn't really break anything. They took selfies at legislators desks and such.

    It's hard to interpret as a commentary from the left on the Capitol protesters unless one assumes it's an expression of extreme self-consciousness; of the left's fake radicals trying to insinuate themselves in to what was an authentic confrontation of state power peopled by authentic (if naive) workers.

    [–]Node 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

    That's the narrative they're all pushing. Antifa is as much cannon fodder as the Trump and Q worshippers, but both are just too dumb to ever figure that out.

    [–]wristaction 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Cops kneel for antifa, who are never prosecuted.

    [–]johnjohnjohn 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

    socks is a legit antifa screwjob. look what he is doing.. he is admitting with this cartoon that antifa starts trouble and puts the blame on someone else.

    maybe if you go up to DC and show some of these cartoons to those military that are surrounding the whitehouse, maybe they will laugh.

    you stupid ass.

    TRUMP 2021

    [–]fishbox 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    2021? really? How in your stupid fucking brain can that work?

    [–]FreedomUltd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Ha. Bro, he believes the kids' excuse.

    [–]adultmanhwa 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    nothing hopeful from trump, compare it to ron paul for clearest juxtapose

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]wristaction 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

      Lol! Like the imaginary fascist insurrection you spent all day deployed and leaning on your rifle waiting for.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        TIL: tulpa

        [–]johnjohnjohn 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

        check this shit out.. an article titled " Biden inauguration: How the White House gets ready for a new president".. and so typical for biden, kinda like his imaginary rallies where five people show up and they are all paid actors, lol..

        if the whitehouse was preparing for joe biden to be the president, he wouldnt be posing for a picture by standing in front of a flag and nothing else, but instead he would have a pic taken of him inside of the white house.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55683895

        biden is a criminal clown.

        i will literally be surprised if biden gets into office.

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Where do you get your information?

        [–]madcow-5 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        I voted for Trump, and long before the election expected it to be disputed and handled in the supreme court. When the supreme court wouldn't hear the case, that's when I lost any notion of there being a chance Trump stays in office. Still believing Biden wont be sworn in seems like a serious level of cope. My guess on why he's not at the white house now is the Trump administration not cooperating with formalities, believing the election was stolen. I think there'll be a peaceful transition of power, however Orwellian.

        [–]johnjohnjohn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        i just cant believe that these dipshit antifa/occupy nutjobs are taking over my country.

        [–]fishbox 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Quit being a bitch.