Lost my job

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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (30 children)

Indeed - criminal negligence of the US government not to test, quarantine and require masks back in February, like other countries have managed to do (eg. New Zealand), and have managed to keep businesses open. Oh - and stimulus money primarily for the 1% in the US (as opposed to support for the 99% in other countries). Hope this changes in January with the arrival of two Dem. Georgia Senators. Otherwise the US is still fucked.

[–]wecandobetter 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (29 children)

It's a fairy tale that in any reality the USA could have controlled the spread as well as NZ (a tiny, geographically isolated floating fortress). Could things have gone better? Sure. But arguably the country we should have copied is not NZ, but rather Sweden.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

The main issue is not 'control', but 'manage', with a basic process of testing, quarantine, masks, & social distancing (6 feet). This has reduced COVID problems in South Korea, Germany and other countries.

It's much easier to social distance in Sweden even in urban areas, though they've seen increasing numbers in recent months. It's still easy to spread COVID in well-connected countries like NZ, especially in urban areas, but they are also famous for the four simple steps noted above.

In the US this was unnecessarily and dangerously made into a political issue (but it's a fucking health and thoughtfulness issue), and there have been idiots trying to enforce their personal FREEDUMBS onto others at the grocery and elsewhere, when they could merely put on a damn mask like all of the other customers. It's embarrasing to see the videos of North Americans acting like this, as if they represent the potential level of CRAZY that's in the US, by contrast with nearly every other country, with the exteption of the developing BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India China), which are famous for extreme idiocy on video. Make America America again.

[–]noice 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

Which numbers in Sweden are increasing? Cases? Do you know how dubious that metric is?

Can you show me the study which has convinced you that masks help reduce the spread of respiratory illness?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

One of the websites keeping track of the data:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

This and the information about masks is very easy to Google. Every site offering scientific advice on how to deal with COVID mention the importance of masks.

[–]noice 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

So yeah, mostly cases. We'll keep watching the deaths to see what happens there, but keep in mind that everyone is tested for COVID now. Have to see other metrics as well such as influenza deaths and total deaths to get a clear picture.

Also, I'm not asking for studies because I'm unaware. I'm asking for studies because I want to talk about science directly with you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

If you look at deaths per 1 million, here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

You'll see that Sweden has had 742 deaths/million.

"Mostly cases" applies to all countries. Look at the logarithmic scale (select top left):

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

This shows a steady number of deaths since March. Sweden is thus the same poorly managed COVID country as 23 other countries. And it's much easier to social distance in Sweden than elsewhere.

What seems to happen on saidit.net is that the voting system seems to favor posts that people want to believe rather than posts that they don't want to believe, but are likely true. And almost none of the posts on saidit.net are insightful or funny. There should be a WTF voting button. (I joined this site to learn more about it.)

[–]wecandobetter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I will agree with the idiocy of politicizing. But, it was the most emotionally charged election year of all time so I don't know what to tell you there. And in response to your 'freedumb' comment I'll say only...SK and Germany already had cultures emphasizing submission to authority and lower individualism. This allowed SK, for example, to implement an incredibly invasive track and trace system. The USA does not have that kind of culture, and that isn't something you can just flip a switch on overnight. The EU in general really hasn't faired very well, even Germany is now up to double their spring case/death load. Please spare me about the masks. Outside surgical/healthcare settings, evidence for their population wide efficacy is shaky at best.

And as for Sweden, if you would scrutinize the data from the website you yourself referenced, Sweden's current fatality/case rate is ~0.9%. The goal should not be to entirely eliminate Covid, but to reach the point where it's no more ominous than the regular flu. In sweden, it's about at that point. Also, Sweden is sitting prettier in their deaths/million numbers than countries that had harsh lockdown measures. Seems a bit random doesn't it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I agree with some of these points about approaches in the US and Sweden, though would still argue that, 1) it's a bit of apples & oranges to compare the two, and 2) for the period of February - December, there has been the ability in both wealthy countries to do much better with four tasks that have been essential: testing, quarantine, masks, social distancing. The result in both countries has been unnecessary suffering for people, small businesses, &c.

[–]wecandobetter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The suffering to small businesses is being imposed by the government - not by some existential threat to the very life of the vast, VAST majority of all human beings. With a fatality per case % approaching regular flu levels, the justification is looking shakier by the day to keep the working age population caged like animals while their businesses fail and future collapses. The myopic fear will be killing people via drugs and suicide for a decade or more to come. 67000 mostly young what should be healthy people died of ODs in 2018 before all this crap started. But nooooo lets double that number so the 85 year olds can have one more year of sucking wind. Yes, THATS the unselfish moral thing to do.

[–]noice 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

What do you think of the fact that Sweden has around the same number of deaths in 2020 as the past 10 years?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    [You] will happily kill other people.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    This is interesting but misleading:

    7500 deaths will not appear appropriately in yearly statistics with around 90,000 deaths/year

    There are many factors that are the causes of death. For example, under-5 mortality decreased dramatically in the past 10 years in Sweden. https://data.unicef.org/country/swe/

    Also people live longer now than they did 10 years ago. http://www.healthdata.org/sweden

    The graph is also misleading because it does not show spikes in deaths, as one can see here: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps (17th week of 2020 saw a sharp rise in deaths.)

    Also see what the analysists are seeing (Sweden records highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/19/sweden-records-highest-death-tally-in-150-years-in-first-half-of-2020

    With 742/million due to COVID (among the 90,000 who die eash year in the population of 10 million, many of whom are socially distance), Sweden is one of the world leaders in terrible COVID response, with a large percentage of the 7500 deaths that were avoidable via the usual precautions.

    [–]noice 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    You're interesting but misleading.

    7500 deaths will not appear appropriately in yearly statistics with around 90,000 deaths/year...

    Fact check - False. 7500 deaths will inevitably be part of the total number of deaths for the year.

    There are many factors that are the causes of death. For example, under-5 mortality decreased...

    Fact check - Non-sequitur. Irrelevant.

    Also people live longer now than they did...

    Fact check - Non-sequitur. Irrelevant.

    The graph is also misleading because it does not show spikes in deaths...

    Fact check - Lol you didn't even look at the country-specific data. The data at the top appears to be all of Europe. Look at Sweden you buffoon. No excess. The map and the country-specific data below it.

    Also see what analysts are seeing...

    I acknowledge that there was a spike in deaths at the Spring of 2020. That happened in a large number of countries, including the US. What I'm arguing is that they handled it in a more sensible manner than many other places. Now they're probably close to natural herd immunity.

    With 742/million due to COVID...

    Fact check - how do you know that mandatory masks and economic shutdown would've prevented these deaths? From your own data on euromomo.eu, why does Sweden show no excess deaths while Italy, Switzerland, Slovenia, Austria, Greece have much higher excess?

    [–]EvilNick 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    i love people comparing a vast country of 350MILLION to countries smaller than Massachusetts. NYC alone is broader and more populated than most EU countries.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Gosh. You love me? Not sure that's what I'm doing, however. This is the comparison: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus

    [–]EvilNick 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    thats great but if you add up the 5 main EU countries together it just about equals the USA with a lower population

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1115043/coronavirus-deaths-timeline-in-the-eu-5/

    also I love Dr Burk... "were being very liberal with our death counts."

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    we all had it, they just refused to test anyone until after it was over

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    nope

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    prove me wrong

    edit. sigh. so many utterly moronic users.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    why?