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[–][deleted]  (12 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Anatolia 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

    imagine not knowing that since the inception of haiti they have been burdened with massive ass jew ursury debts since the beginning of it as a nation, without an ability to gain capital or money bc of these debts they couldn't do shit forever. now the argument is "wow dumb niggers" without understanding the history

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]ethiopia 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

      Yeah there aren't any other factors like being stolen as slaves losing their homeland, culture, language, and being forcefully bred and separated. Couldn't be any of that

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]ethiopia 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

        We're talking about Haiti. Not South Africa. Different circumstances, lots of nuance. I've lived in many places around the world and this "desire to live in western world" is not a common viewpoint

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]ethiopia 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

          200 years of not being slaves isn't enough time

          they were debt slaves for a long time, you just need to catch up on your history

          We also have to consider the colonial histories of these two countries. As you may know, Haiti earned its independence through a slave revolt. It was only the second country in the Americas to earn its independence (after the US). As such, many European powers, including France, Spain, and Britain, feared the precedent. These nations didn't want Haiti to become a successful and wealthy country full of former slaves, as that would have sent a message to slaves in other colonies that a revolution for independence would increase their quality of life. Thus, there was a European boycott of Haitian goods, and this lack of trade began Haiti's transition from a relatively wealthy country (by the standards of the Americas) to a poor one. To make matters worse for the Haitians, France agreed to recognize Haiti's sovereignty only after they pay a debt of 150 million francs in compensation for French​ losses during the revolution. This debt was paid over eight decades and was only fully paid off in 1922. Due to the interest on the 150 million, the Haitian government ended up paying much, much more to their former colonial owners, which did not help the financial situation. These were problems that the DR, which became independent much later, did not have to face.

          One of the ways the Haitian government paid back their debt to France was in the form of massive timber exports leading to massive deforestation.

          Deforestation in Haiti has been an ongoing crisis since the mid-18th century when coffee, tobacco, and sugarcane plantations were established. It has led to environmental, humanitarian, and economic crises for the nation. Reforestation has been an ongoing and difficult project. I believe only ~2% of Haiti is forested, compared to ~40% for the Dominican Republic.

          It wasn't so much they felt the need to pay it off as they were compelled to. France tied the debt issue to recognition of sovereignty. If Haiti doesn't agree to pay off the debt then France will not recognize Haiti as a country which in theory could mean France could later reconquer Haiti. This wasn't an implicit threat either. France had a number of warships off the coast when the deal was negotiated. It's interesting how this issue of the debt affects relations between the two countries today, though that's for a different subreddit.

          Sources:

          Haiti, France and the Debt of 1825 by Anthony Phillips

          Race, Reality, and Realpolitik by Jeffrey Sommers

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]ethiopia 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

            imagine thinking they aren't purposefully held back so that we have access to all their resources.

            imagine not knowing that Gaddafi was going to establish a gold based currency for all africa and then was assassinated (after being framed multiple times for terrorism)

            [–]TiredJustTired[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

            Imposing usury upon a nation, as has been done to Haiti and the rest of the world, is economically-punishing (for the people, and for the state which cannot operate due to having to pay off these loans from international hyenas). We should be more supportive and understanding of blacks' (Haitians and Africans) emancipation from such an economic system of enslavement.