all 33 comments

[–]AnarchySpeach 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (29 children)

The comic kind of skips a lot of steps.

The biggest is also represented in the pictures shown: The first group is building their own city. The second group, that never advanced in technology because of their location, was moved into the first groups location. Instead of helping them they were exploited, sold, and when it became morally wrong (aka no longer financially viable because of the industrial revolution) the rest of the world left them to fight over the advanced sci-fi alien-level technology we left behind.

To quote a dude from reddit:

1/. Technology

Africa was technologically behind the rest of the world because of the Sahara desert. Critical technology needed to develop other technologies, like writing systems and the wheel for instance, failed to reach sub-Saharan Africa from the Mesopotamian Civilizations. These technologies reached Europe and North Africa through merchants, nomadic travellers among others. Ethiopia is an exception as they had contact with Egypt and other civilizations that had these technologies. But for most of Africa, these technologies simply didn't arrive until Europeans came barging in.

Think about how there isn't any African script (Ethiopia being the exception of course) like there is a Chinese, Latin and Arabic script. Or how ubiquitous it is to see an African woman with a bucket on her head instead of using a carriage.

2/. State Centralization

OK so this needs a wee bit of explaining. Why were Europeans able to conquer whole swathes of African territory with seeming relative ease? Two main reasons. The first we've already covered in technology. Europeans had guns, which are a technology they gained from the Far East and figured out how to manufacture. Africans either didn't have guns or they traded them and couldn't manufacture their own.

The second reason that is also related to the first is lack of centralized states. Europe's main problem was the scarcity of land. Africa's? The scarcity of people. This difference is critical in understanding why Europe was able to conquer Africa. The competition for land in Europe encourage Europeans to form more centralized states with absolute rulers like Kings and Emperors. These rulers could then levy taxies and raise armies. And they did. So with all this fighting they clearly get experience and improve on their tools, strategies and tactics. Meanwhile, they create more robust structures of government that are more efficient at offering other amenities for control like roads. In Africa, however, land is plentiful. There are no incentives for people to pay tax. If I don't like your tax I'll simply move. This happened a lot. See Great Zimbabwe and its successor the Mutapa Kingdom.

I could go on about this point but its already long enough. But to finish off given the prevailing situation; most African leaders felt they controlled peoples and not land. As a result, when Europeans arrived they would ally with them to ascertain control of the people they didn't have control over rather than defend the land they could potentially own. Europeans took advantage of this to some extent, see The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade.

3/. Ideas

This point is last because I feel its the most recent but I think its as important as the first point. And just like the first point, the Sahara desert is the stumbling block. Ideas can prove pivotal in how a country fairs in history. Ethiopia got spared colonialism for a long time due to its exposure to Christianity and even among African states, the Ndebele simply dominated many tribes due to the ideas - such as military tactics - they retained from the Zulus. It has been theorized 1 that many countries were able to prosper due to ideals of inclusive economic and political structures that were able to spread from France (after the French Revolution of 1789) and England (after the Glorious Revolution) to mainland Europe and Western English-speaking democracies like the U.S. and Australia. These ideas failed to reach Africa in the 17th and 18th Centuries and hence why Africa lacks democratic and truly inclusive economic institutions to this day.

Conclusion These are only some of the reasons as to why Africa got dominated by Eurasian civilizations. It is still important to note that Africa didn't decline; it was developing at a very steady pace just as the rest of the world was in the 14th to 15th Century. It simply continued developing at this pace as Europeans were discovering other parts of the world and continually improving their economies, governments and militaries. By the early 16th Century the difference was insurmountable for most African polities.

To make matters worse... instead of incorporating them into our society we let the delusion of "black culture must involve being poor" thrive, so they don't have any shame in the way they act, and their expectations are set to the lowest possible degree. It's learned helplessness. This can be seen whenever a black infant is adopted by two white parents. Other blacks ostracize them for being successful and talking like there's hope for the future. Black history should be kept as a viable subject to study, learn from, and pass down to generations, as all histories of every ethnicity should be, but anybody pretending that this current black "culture" is a positive to society is lying to themselves.

[–]TheJamesRocket 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

This is a very long winded attempt to exonerate Africans for their failure to form anything resembling a coherent civilisation. It reeks of the same kind of environmental determinism that was popularised by Jared Diamond.

All this talk about the invention of the wheel and the written language is missing the point. The cold, hard truth is that on every continent that was inhabited by humans, there arose a system of agriculture and animal domestication... All except on the African continent. These people did not manage to develop that most basic pre-requisite for civilisation. This is rather shocking when you consider that agriculture arose in both North and South America!

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not shocked that red people have more salt than black people. Red people have their mental gifts. Blacks generally do not.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

monkeys and apes in india didn't invent agriculture either.

[–]TheJamesRocket 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

On the contrary, India has had agriculture for at least 6000-7000 years.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

humans invented it. The Aryan race spread there early on.

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

(((aryan)))

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They invented cow manure tho

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are numerous points of the development of agriculture and animal domestication in Africa.

[–]TheJamesRocket 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are numerous points of the development of agriculture and animal domestication in Africa.

Name them.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Merchants from India were trading with Europe, but couldn't reach South Africa? Perhaps they simply had no reason to go there.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Generally insightful comment.

this current black "culture"

Has been largely manufactured and socially engineered - for centuries. Many Black people do not subscribe to the negative aspects of whatever you broadly and generally consider a "current Black culture".

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, current Black American culture is nothing like it was 100 years ago. Its something which has grown since the 1970s.

[–]bobbobbybob 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

none of the people in the picture were exploited or sold. they chose their path.

you remove their agency, treating them like children. You are deeply imperialistic and racist, but in denial

niggers? gonna nig. it is genetic.

[–]AnarchySpeach 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

exploited

Brainwashed into believing that leaving an area with poor job opportunities is "giving up" on their community when there's barely a community to begin with.

sold

Never said those in the modern picture were.

they chose their path.

You're right. Peer pressure is no excuse. But that doesn't mean we are powerless to offer a way out for those among them that choose to leave the ruins behind them.

you remove their agency, treating them like children.

Like how you see only hopelessness in their future, and rather than consider the possibility for change you hand wave their existence as predestined for doom? Saying "genetics" and walking away from the burning streets is about as pessimisticaly racist as it can get.

imperialistic

You got me there. Imperialism isn't all bad. It can do great things, but how it hurt the political process in Africa and India is unforgivable, and is a problem we are still dealing with today a hundred years later.

[–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Like how you see only hopelessness in their future,

see, there you are colonising their experience again. They will be fine. Grunting, violent animalistic behaviour is their apex, and they are happy doing it.

but how it hurt the political process in Africa and India is unforgivable

colonial hegemony. What makes you say western ideas of democracy are 'better' than indigenous african warlord models? Racism defines you

[–]AnarchySpeach 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What makes you say western ideas of democracy are 'better' than indigenous african warlord models?

I never implied it was better than democracy.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

For starters, the "warlord model" as you put it works perfectly well in a location where disapproving members are free to leave. That's one of the big advantages of having large areas of unclaimed land. If the land is big enough it could even support several independent warlords. It works fine as long as groups have plenty of space to avoid the other.

Given enough space it would be the universal default.

Modern technology is slowly removing that option from everybody. For example, in America if the outcome of a particular vote hurts you... tough shit. Where do you go? If you wake up one day labeled a criminal, or there's no food, or any number of problems there is no escape. Nowhere to reset and try again.

With nowhere to run people fight. These forced confrontations lead to rapid technological advancements.

Africa had the geography to help spread people out to avoid unnecessary conflicts. One of the reasons why their technology was slower to develop.

Europe didn't have that option. People were continuously forced to fight over every inch of space. One of the byproducts of being forced into a society you can't escape from is group rage. Often at the government that's ordering them to die in pointless wars. To placate the masses voting started to spread.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

next time you can just say "ok, you are right"

[–]AnarchySpeach 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

what? lmao

[–]emanresu 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Africa was technologically behind the rest of the world because of the Sahara desert.

Ohh they never invented anything because of a big desert. It's got nothing to do with IQ.

[–]AnarchySpeach 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

hard to base it all on IQ when the educational system over there is in drastic need of funding, but whatever floats your boat

[–]bobbobbybob 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

who creates educational systems? smart people.

why did the west advance beyond africa? Cro-Magnon vs unknown great ape genetics.

africans are evolved to live in paradise. Fuck, fight, browse. Whites, to survive in an enimical climate. Plan, cooperate, store, build.

easy

[–]AnarchySpeach 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You're creating a chicken and egg problem where there is none.

smart people don't automatically share their knowledge with others, and if there isn't an efficient method of spreading that information it forces other smart people to continuously start from scratch rather than building off what came before. The wheel allowed for many great things. It would have been re-invented and rediscovered repeatedly if given enough time, but unless it's shared you're never gonna get a wagon.

[–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

you seem incapable of understanding that western civilisation arose, and that it arose in response to genetic selection.

Africa is a shithole because the pressures there don't select for any values that westerners consider posititve.

That said, what we see as a shithole is actual paradise for the apes that evolved there.

[–]AnarchySpeach 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

geographical location gave that rise and one of the reasons I disbelieve the genetic theory of racism is because I've seen it disproved before my own eyes:

If you stick a black infant, or any infant of any ethnicity, and place them into the care of a middle class white family they "act white"

Honestly couldn't tell what their skin color was with a blindfold on.

Humans adapt to the culture and mannerisms of those that raise them.

If you stuck a bunch of white infants in Africa, let them grow up, and then remove the original Africans, you're gonna get a bunch of white people living how they were raised. add in a few hundred years of sunburns and through evolution you'll see skin color start to darken.

[–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

If you stick a black infant, or any infant of any ethnicity, and place them into the care of a middle class white family they "act white"

simple social behaviour has fuck all to do with intelligence. Do they go on to invent things? where is your data, your source, that shows identical achievement and outcomes?

If you stuck a bunch of white infants in Africa, let them grow up, and then remove the original Africans, you're gonna get a bunch of white people living how they were raised.

unsubstantiated and baseless statement, made simply to try and pretend your argument is real. Again, no source, just an opinion.

[–]AnarchySpeach 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

data

I could ask you the same thing. lol

Your numbers refuse to account for educational development, such as schools, of an area because your genetic-narrative falls apart if you do.

unsubstantiated and baseless statement,

lol whatever helps you sleep at night.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

in other words: you got nothing.

you are the one trying to explain away clear evidence of genetics in action, prove it

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The thing you are missing here is disease.

Malaria is rife across Africa and still causes a huge number of deaths.

The way African civilisations dealt with this is by living away from water sources in and keeping settlements scarcely populated. They also purposely kept the popular low with things like human sacrifice, slave trading their neighbours and circumcision. I mean the old African Empires were just as much fun as the Aztecs. People would be far more interested in African history if they were taught those aspects rather than trying to be all worthy and reverential about it.

The environment also put off outside traders because many would drop dead on African trips from tropical diseases.

[–]TheJamesRocket 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Give whites a pile of bricks, and they'll turn it into a city.

Give blacks a city, and they'll turn it into a pile of bricks.

[–]FediNetizen 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A racist comic on the frontpage of /s/history.

Yep, this is definitely a saidit moment.