all 18 comments

[–]newguy 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Here's the actual graph of stats: https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/09/20180914_Deadly_Dogs_Forbes.jpg

Yes, pitbulls really are that bad. They're bred to fight bulls in a pit to the death, is this really a surprise?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

My brother keeps a pack of them. I like pits, they're some sweet dogs when they're alone... But

They're bred to fight bulls

As you say they're fighting dogs. When they fight I've seen my brother whack them full strength with a piece of wood to try to get them to stop mauling each other and it didn't even register to that dog. If they want to kill a human even a weapon isn't going to save your ass.

[–]StillLessons 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm glad to see you're sticking to actual pitbulls, when the OP is obviously coding this as a not-so-subtle substitution.

Regarding pits, the problem is two-fold. One, as you say, they are genetically coded to fight, so there is an inherent emotional volatility in them. That said, I own a dog who is not a pit, and is also an emotionally volatile male (super sweet at home and absolutely adores us to the point of worship, but we're always on guard outside the house; strangers in the house is also a big issue). A big difference, however, is the capacity of our dog to inflict harm. Alongside their emotional issues, the issue with pits is their raw power. When they go into attack mode, the consequences are much more severe than with other aggressive breeds. For example, cocker-spaniels have a serious issue with aggression, but we never see the stories about "cocker attacks". Why? Because a cocker attack is not likely to be life-threatening. Our dog is somewhere in the middle of a cocker and a pit for strength. People who live with a dog who is potentially a threat have a profound responsibility (both to neighbors and to the dog himself/herself) to respect the danger our dogs represent and control the situations the dog is in. We got lucky in that we had a very serious situation develop with our dog, but it occurred with a super-dog-savvy person who avoided the bite through brilliant escape-deflection moves. Ever since, while we adore our dog, we will never trust him again except when we absolutely control the environment in which he interacts. It is our job as his family to make sure to create/maintain that control ALWAYS.

That's what it means to live with a dog like this. With pits that responsibility is five-fold magnified.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Your dog reminds me of a German Shepherd we used to have. He was well mannered, but kinda racist. A number of our dogs have been instantly hostile to people of other races for some reason, but yeah, nobody minds the smaller breeds being bitchy.

... You know, the people they were aggressive to always seemed fearful initially, maybe it was cultural. Cats and dogs love killing things in distress. I had never been afraid of a dog before an incident with the pits. I don't normally stand around creatures thinking about biting a chunk off me. But of course you gotta abandon that feeling right quick around those beautiful monsters.

Probably should be a mandatory lesson for kids in school, teach em how to handle animals.

With pits that responsibility is five-fold magnified.

Probably goes without saying his neighbors all hate him. I mean, those kind of animals should probably be kept in a more secure enclosure than a typical backyard. I don't know how many times they've gored each other, but 3 of our other smaller dogs have been badly injured over the years by pits in general. One time a pit tried to bite off the other's dick, lol. Nearly did too.

Aside from the violence, they're amazing dogs, and they're so much better if they aren't around any other dogs.

There's a German Shepherd we sometimes walk, and they upgraded to a choke collar. I used to be against those, but she's a bit moody. Tried to take a chicken carcass away from her once she found on the road, hah. She went from loveable goof to down to fight for that thing in an instant. Wouldn't respond to commands. And we were dog sitting, so I was worried for a hot sec I'd have to be bringing this dog back to its home with a goddamned chicken carcass in its mouth!

So, I guess if I have a point it's I have become a lot more cautious about animals over the years. I seen some shit lol. And my cat is a fucking monster, good thing he's relatively small. He's got the personality of a slightly pissed lion who doesn't like being touched. He delights in inflicting pain.

I purposely didn't train that out of him though, my last two cats were super well behaved and in their final years the wife remarked I had broken their spirits. I didn't mean to. They led good lives, but they were cats who couldn't be cats. It's like raising kids you don't hug. I mean that in a figurative sense, my family is big on personal space.

[–]3rd-degree_moonburn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

A .380 to the dome will stop that shit fast. Had a massive grey pitt literally burst through a fence while walking my dogs one morning. Ran us down and got right up on my husky. Both and my lab were very calm and didn't make any sudden moves, even when he started nipping at the husky's neck. I reached down and summoned some kind of demon roar that sent him running but Ive carried while i walk them ever since. ESPECIALLY now that I have a baby. I love dogs, but if your dog is a piece of shit I will put it down without a second thought if it comes at me or mine

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

A .380 to the dome will stop that shit fast.

I don't carry, but I think I could probably get one easily enough with a 9mm, or .380, just my preference for caliber. Maybe not in the brain, but quantity is a quality all its own. But what about a pack of the goddamned things? I'm okay shooting at a target, nothing special, but trying to put down four pits charging at me...

[–]StillLessons 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More than one dog is a force people don't sufficiently appreciate. Even one pit is a serious threat, requiring skill to counter. When dogs operate in a hunting pack? You're fucked and you better be able to find shelter, because you're not taking them down.

[–]Tiwaking 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

The black ones are twice as bad

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Male dogs also attack more than female dogs

[–]tensigh 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

That is an interesting point - I've never heard of a Lab that "snaps" and mauls a 4 year old to death.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]MagicMike 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Pit bulls destroy everything and will swear you are prejudiced because you don’t like it when pit bulls destroy cities.

[–]trident765 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

After seeing this I tried to look up murder statistics by race of murderer. I cannot find this anywhere for some reason. All I can find is murder statistics by race of victim.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

[–]trident765 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks. Looks like for murders it is about 50/50 whites and blacks. So blacks are overrepresented for their population, but it is nowhere near what is for pitbulls vs other dogs.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Blacks are about 13% of the population, while Whites are about 60%. The FBI counts Hispanics (mestizos) as White, so for the purposes of this table, it's more like 80%. If each group commits the same amount of murders, the former is still committing murders at six times the rate of the latter. The pibble comparison is more than fair.

[–]BravoVictor 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Stupid bitch should check her Golden privilege.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]StillLessons 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's never entirely one or the other. I have a dog who has had fantastic nurture all his life. He is a very spoiled dog. When he began showing signs of aggression, it took me months to change the bias I had, which matched your comment perfectly. I absolutely believed what you write here. Now I know better. I adore our dog, but his nature is strong, and he is a natural guard. His nature divides the world into "in group" and "out group" and he treats those two groups profoundly differently. He absolutely views his purpose in life as protecting those of us within his pack from those of "them" outside his pack. When we intend to have people/dogs spend time with him, we have to do so carefully, giving him lots of monitored time with them in a controlled situation so that he can adjust to the concept that these people/dogs are a safe part of his world. Until he accepts them in that role, he reacts with "the best defense is a good offense". Once he accepts them into his world, he is the sweetest marshmallow in the world. It's quite a dramatic dichotomy.

    When a dog enters my life, the first priority is to socialize and train the dog. I'm quite dedicated to this. I put a lifetime of work into learning to communicate (two-way) with any animal who lives in our space. This isn't a question just of good will. I put work and discipline (almost all positive training, unless there is absolutely no way to train an element without a negative stimulus) into developing the dog's ability to respond to what we wish them to know. Living with a dog is a relationship, and the dog must completely understand our expectations while simultaneously being 100% sure that we are a trustworthy, safe friend that they can depend upon absolutely for their safety.

    I used to have two labs. They were easy. They loved everyone equally. They were goofballs. I also had them from puppy to the end of their lives. The difference between them and our pup now (herding dog mix) is dramatic.

    Our pup now is supremely responsive to us. As his pack, he listens to us and pays attention to what we tell him in a way that is frankly stunning. For example, today I was out walking him (he was off-leash, as there was nobody within half a mile and I had clear visual sight-lines for hundreds of yards in all directions) and he picked up a dead mole he found. I'm still shocked because I realized within seconds what he had and I commanded him to drop it. Damned if he didn't drop it! With a prize like that (a yummy smelly relatively fresh dead animal), this is no small thing. He wanted that mole. But he dropped it when I told him to. That's the level of response he offers us as his pack. He listens to us and is absolutely always paying attention to us. He is completely safe off-leash (as long as there's no perceived threat) because he has an absolute desire to stay with his pack and operate with us. He centers all his exploration in a circle of maximum 100 yards of us, always coming back to check on us at least every 90 seconds. In other words, he's a herding dog. He operates in a circle around his "shepherd" (which is us).

    What will overwhelm that instinct he has to respond to us is the even stronger instinct he has to protect the herd. If he develops a sense that some space (his home or another place he considers "his") is to be guarded, then anything that comes within his perimeter must be driven away, or if it doesn't go away and approaches, it must be attacked. This is an absolute mandate within his nature. Commands at that point bounce off him like a brick wall. He hears nothing except his interior mandate to "deal with the invader". Until the threat is neutralized, his action is independent. He knows what he needs to do, and he shows zero need for input from us.

    Because of this, as I said in my comment above in the thread, we now know that our job is to control his environment absolutely. As long as he is in a controlled and safe environment, he is literally the sweetest dog you can imagine. He is sweeter and more affectionate even that my labs were (and that's saying something!). He adores us and anyone within his perimeter. He would be radically incapable of conceiving of the idea of harming anyone within his pack. No matter what we do with him (we could actually cause him physical harm), he trusts us 100%. There is no greater trust I have of anyone or anything in the world than I have for my pup, with relation to me or those in his pack.

    It's quite remarkable actually to see the clear demarcation of "in group" and "out group" that is genetically coded into his nature.

    As I said, before this pup, I didn't know everything I have written here. I believed just as you said that it's all about nurture, not nature. I have now learned otherwise. Do not ignore the nature of an animal. It is real, and to live happily with that animal and to give that animal the happy life we wish to give them, our training and the structure of the life we design around the animal must take the nature of the animal into account. Because we know our pup's nature, we give him what he needs, and he remains the happiest and most spoiled pup ever. But if we were to try to pretend he is capable of overcoming an instinct as strong as his "guarding" instinct is, we'd be doing both him and ourselves a disservice.

    There's a reason there are animals that cannot be safely domesticated. There is no such thing as a "safe" wolf, no matter whether raised from the youngest puppyhood in a happy human environment. Genetics cannot be ignored; those animals are not programmed to live in human society, and they are unable to submit their instincts to our requirements.

    Dogs fall on a spectrum between the wild untameable wolves, and the goofy lovable goldens. The best, most flexible dog-companions must be aware of these differences to be able to adjust our expectations depending on what each individual animal requires for our and their own happiness.