Does Communism support free speech?

submitted by LarrySwinger2 from scontent-ams4-1.xx.fbcdn.net

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 33 insightful - 5 fun33 insightful - 4 fun34 insightful - 5 fun -  (40 children)

Communism can't support free speech - because it is built on a mountain of lies about human nature, institutional power, and the condition of man.

https://files.catbox.moe/yt0oo4.jpeg

[–]proc0 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Also it comes down to authoritarianism because how will you bring about your all-inclusive utopia when any disagreement basically shatters that necessity? It just takes one person to say no in order for it to not be all-inclusive which quickly disintegrates its main purpose.

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Communism understands change and that human institutions and "nature" are manifestations of an economic substructure. "Communist" nations today do not think they live under communism. That is their goal, not their condition. They see themselves as the dictatorship of the proletariat competing with the dictatorships of the bourgeoisie, working to usher in a world not based on imperialism, war, and repeated capitalist depressions - conditions that bring out the worst in people.

[–]Canbot 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Human nature is provably not a manifestation of economic anything. It is a lie that humans are infinitely moldable and a direct product of their environment. The fact that any animal can be bred to have certain personality characteristics proves that those characteristics are genetic. Humans are absolutely not unique among the animal kingdom.

"Communist" nations today do not think they live under communism.

Oh of course, real communism hasn't been tired yet. Will you guys ever get tired of that bullshit argument?

They see themselves as the dictatorship of the proletariat

Then they are stupid because they clearly have less freedom and power than people living under Capitalism or "dictatorships of bourgeoisie" as you call them.

[–]joogabah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Humans are not like other animals. We have 2 inherited information systems - DNA and language. Animals only have the former. A human today is not the same as a human a century ago. A horse today is exactly like a horse a century ago. This is so obvious it shouldn't require any explanation. Why are people are so blind to the fact that we are a massive collection of linguistic constructs? In humans, it takes more than one brain to make a mind. A human being never spoken to is unthinkable. What would it even be? It's not possible. Language makes us as distinct from animals as animals are from plants. It is at least as differentiating as being able to move around. Human beings are programmable in a way that opens up entire vistas unavailable to animals. Space travel, music, humor, ideology, creativity, even the ability to understand our own biology and manipulate it genetically! We are NOT the same.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read. You have basically taken "humans are unique because of language" and made up a whole fucking reality that literally contradicts centuries of scientific evidence of human nature. Literally every study ever done on twins proves, not only that human nature exists, but that it also has far more impact than people realize.

Language absolutely can NOT change human nature. At best you can argue that it influences behavior, but even that is a stretch.

[–]joogabah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's like you can't even see the world around you. I guess you are right. We're just naked apes. I can barely tell the difference in how we live compared to chimpanzees. They have memories from thousands of years ago too!

The ideas are not dumb. They just contradict your present worldview. And your anger betrays the fact that you found them somewhat persuasive and a challenge to that worldview. Humans are vastly different from other species in a qualitative way. We are the only animal with a linguistic consciousness that predates our own physical lives. I don't know why you want to ignore language and just dismiss it like it is equivalent to the squawks and grunts and groans of the beasts that don't even approach our level of consciousness. Why the blind spot? You tell me.

Human nature is variable and programmable. Humanity produces altruists and serial killers. We all see the world through the constructs that are spoken into us. Language is the source of ideology. Humans are the only species that can live practically anywhere on the surface of the Earth by changing their environment instead of being subject to their habitat. Humans are the only species that have ever chosen to and accomplished leaving the planet. You and I don't even know each other, but we are using human technology as a sort of anonymous telepathy, to exchange ideas (via language). That's just like all the other animals?

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

First off this is the structure of your argument: Humans have abilities that animals don't, this means that humans are "insert disproved, illogical claim". And I can prove that humans have abilities that animals don't therefore I have proven "illogical claim". This is a fallacy. The existence of human nature is proven. That humans have abilities beyond that of animals does not disprove that. It is absurd that you keep talking about how humans are different as if that proves your incorrect argument that humans don't have a genetically programmed nature. It is you who doesn't understand how the world works. You can't even grasp how your arguments are illogical.

Second, you are confusing specific actions with natural tendencies. For example traditions, memes, culture, etc are not human nature, and they are not a replacement or substitution for human nature. No amount of examples of those things supports your claim. All those things exist along side human nature.

Third, the nature of human nature is not fully understood; that absolutely does not mean there is doubt that it exists. The existence of human nature has been proven far beyond any doubt. Twins separated at birth, and sent to drastically different environments have shown stunning similarity to each other which were stunningly different than their adoptive families. There is a mountain of studies you can explore which looked at nature vs nurture. The way you have thrown out nature without a single logical argument is the epitome of stupidity. And unfortunately that stupidity has taken over academia and media by way of ideological dogma. Your claims are not born of the arguments you make, but are constructed to support the leftist claim that we are all identical and all differences are social constructs. Those "arguments" are manufactured after the fact to support a bullshit ideological claim. And you have at best been brainwashed to not only believe them, but to instinctively reject any logic that disproves them.

[–]joogabah 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I don't think you're listening to what I'm saying. I think you're defending your ideology, which is motivated by anti-leftism. The nature of humans is to be programmable. We are not ruled by instinct like animals. Usually right wingers argue for free will. I'm surprised you seem to argue for genetic determinism in human behavior.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most birds can fly. Yet the statement "all birds can fly" is wrong. Genetic determinism is wrong in the same way. Human nature is not all powerful. Genetic determinism, if it claims that genes are the only factor, is wrong in that claim alone. Genes are far more powerful than language. We don't fully understand how or why, but if you look at separated twins studies with anything but a completely jaded and predetermined conclusion you will be shocked by how powerful genes are.

There is nothing in my argument that has anything to do with leftism. You just don't have a valid rebuttal so you are turning to ad hominem attacks.

Free will can overcome genes, but only when you use it. A fat person can lose weight and be fit their whole life, even though they have genes that strongly push them to be fat (low testosterone, over active thyroid, low Conscientiousness). But most people don't. So when you measure which is more "powerful" by which determines outcomes for most people the answer is genes.

I responded directly to what you said. It is you who is not listening. It is you who doesn't seem to understand that you are wrong even though I explain exactly why you are wrong.

[–]EvilNick 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

we are rules by instinct, what are you talking about. We all have the instinct to survive, most to breed, etc etc. Just because we allude ourselves into thinking there is some greater mechanism behind it doesnt make it true. Everything we do is based on instinct. Also plenty of different animals have language. Not speaking language like ourselves but perfectly fine language for themselves. Bees use chemicals and body movement, mammals use sounds and body language, etc. We arent different from any other mammal. Our brains are larger but it pretty much stops there.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

Neither can capitalism nor capitalism when merged with communism to make totalitarianism.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Completely agree, I think the modern USA is a perfect illustration of this concept. Cultural Marxism is just swell with capitalist oligarchs, keeps the population nicely divided and at each other's throats. It's why they are so eager to destroy shared culture and history, to deracinate all nations. They know humans are incapable of rising above their tribal natures, and they use that against them for their own advantage.

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

And while we're all distracted, divided, and bickering, we're not organizing against the ruling class.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Speak for yourself, these things aren't mutually exclusive. They've certainly made it difficult though - what with the insane censorship regime and unpersoning.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

By "we" I meant the rest of humanity not in the ruling class. Obviously some of us are trying to fight back, but not enough - yet, if ever. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. By taking their measures now they are forcing us to find new alternatives and solutions that include preparing for decentralization. I have much hope that we can develop the work-arounds, but I'm not sure if it's enough to fight all our fear-porn brainwashed neighbours who will hate-squeal on us for not complying with mask wearing, "correct" speech, wrongthink, etc.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

New term: /s/Terminology/comments/5kgo/hatesqueal_the_panicked_noise_fellow_citizens/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

French is your mother tongue, I gather? It is mine. You mean "uproot", since "deracinate" would be taking the French word and anglicising it... ;-)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Sure thing Ayn Rand, keep telling yourself that

[–]whistlepig 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (20 children)

that is an odd way to phrase a compliment ;]

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

You may not know it but you are actually pro human oppression and suffering

[–]whistlepig 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

war is peace... and freedom to choose is oppression and suffering.... sounds like the common double speak I'm slowly getting use to

[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Communism is a chain with the words "freedom" and "prosperity" stamped on them and morons like you keep claiming that if you do not put on the chains you must be against freedom and prosperity.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Every system has its limitations, I just don't want corporate chains put on, whereas I guess you don't want the rule of the working class chains

[–]Canbot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

whereas I guess you don't want the rule of the working class chains

No, my guy. That is wrong, and the problem is that you are too dumb to get that through your head.

Just because communists promise you a government ruled by the working class does not mean you will get a government ruled by the working class. Which, by the way, is called democracy and is quite literally the opposite of communism.

It's a scam. And the ultimate joke is that this scam has been played out dozens of times and all they have to do is say "that wasn't real communism" and there is another group of suckers willing to take the bait. What would it take to convince you that this time is NOT going to be different?!

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

What a bizarre narrative you have going on in your head

[–]Canbot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

If I am wrong then please point out where I am wrong. I am so tired of leftists with nothing but insults and baseless claims insisting that they are right despite not being able to make a single coherent logical argument.

Where has communism worked outside of a small community? How many examples of communist takeovers of capitalist countries turning to absolute shit would it take to convince you that it is par for the course? How many perfect examples of the juxtaposed systems like north and south Korea, and east and west Germany do there have to be?

How is what you are doing not exactly like a moron who knows about the Nigerian price scam, yet still falls for it because the scammer told them "this time it's different, those other guy's weren't really Nigerian Princes, anyone who tells you this is a scam just doesn't want you to get rich"

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Oh okay, I'm gonna need some time to come up with a fact backed argument, I've really just been shit posting from my phone against the tsunami of conservatives here. Allow me some time to leave shit posting mode.

My first inclination of a response is to point to the massive covert ops campaigns that America has waged for decades across the western hemisphere in countless nations to purposefully overthrow democratically elected communistic/socialist leaders and replace them with de facto dictators or leaders that otherwise would be compliant to "free trade" with America. I'm not sure how many nations have failed of their own accord outside of this meddling but I'm sure they exist, just as extremely corrupt capitalist nations exist.

I know the common examples to point out are Stalin, China, and other eastern European countries that have committed atrocities while being communistic, but I'll be honest in that I don't know enough of the actual history to form a solid opinion there. My inclination is that they fell to massive widespread corruption that isn't entirely the fault of a communist structure.

My own feelings that forms my idealogical foundation is that a better world is possible, and capitalism is not even close to the ideal one with how its slowly destroying the world and workers lives. I believe that America experienced a wealth boon that "made it great" only because we survived world war 2 without massive infrastructure decimation, and from our role as the "great creditor" to other nations that essentially allowed us to get everyone else's gold. Because of that I don't believe capitalism holds any especially inherent properties that would allow it to prosper more than other government structures.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since when does the working class rule? WTF? The vanguard rules. You know, the upper middle class. The working class don't know shit. They chose to live under capitalists rather than communists! They are traitors!