Did the majority of Native Americans die from disease or organized murder/genocide?

submitted by Nasser from (self.debatealtright)

This is a frequent argument spouted by anti Whites in regard to the US's origins. How would you challenge the narrative that the US was built on genocide? I've seen counter arguments state the majority died from lack of immunity to smallpox but the person presenting the counter arguments doesn't really provide any source on it or the enemy replies that Whites gave out infected blankets. Others say Whites slaughtering buffalo's to engineer a holodomor style famine, some say Whites killed them hands on with guns or knives. To make it clear, I don't particularly care if it was the most evil scenario, White Americans have a right to advocate for their interests and retain what they won, however I do believe respect and support should be given to the native populations who are not our enemy. What do you think was the main cause of death for native Americans?

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[–]FoxySDTWhite Nationalist 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Out of 2 million, 50K at most were killed in conflict with whites

In the United States, the best estimate of the decline in American Indian numbers is that they decreased from about 2.2 million at the time of first contact to about 350,000 at their nadir around 1900. How much of this decline was the result of killings by whites? An 1894 estimate by the US Bureau of the Census claimed that “about 30,000” Indians had been killed by whites between 1775 and 1894. Recent historians have raised this figure to about 53,500 (and 19,000 whites killed by Indians).

https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/history-wars/2008/12/historical-revision-versus-holocaust-denial/

[–]jet199 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think disease.

The first explorers reported back huge numbers of villages full of people along the shores and river banks wherever they went in the Americas.

The next generation found a near empty continent mostly filled with nomadic tribes.

The germs went over with Columbus and did the most damage at that stage. What came after was nothing in comparison. Whole civilisations disappeared without trace.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Native Indians had already killed each other before the first European step foot.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/01/tower-human-skulls-mexico-city-aztec-sacrifices

Contrast the above story to when the Spanish arrived, who ended up intermarrying the people they subjugated.

So to answer the OP, I don't think there was ever a grand conspiracy by Europeans to eliminate other races they came across.

If the Indians died, it's the same way they're dying for thousands of years. By their own hands or backwardness...

[–]chadwickofwv 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

A plague wiped out 92-96% of the native population shortly before the fabled landing of the pilgrims. So, I'm going with disease.

[–]Nasser[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What's the sources for this plague?

[–]chadwickofwv 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is believed it came from Vikings, but that is only speculation. We'll likely never know for sure.

[–]Nasser[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean the source on a plague happening like historical account.

[–]VraiBleuScots Protestant, Ulster Loyalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It didn’t come from the Vikings, their contact with the local Natives was pretty limited, not to mention the low population density that far North. Not a good place for diseases to spread.

It came from the Spanish in the early 1500’s. By the time the English arrived in the early 1600’s smallpox and other diseases had ravaged both continents, leaving more than 90% of the inhabitants dead.

[–]Brewdabier 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

European settlers killed 56 million indigenous people.

[–]oligarchracy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I've taken a look at the reddit posts you link to in your countless concern troll posts and I never once saw any evidence you or anyone employed any of the points people bring up here. Not once. Where are all these debates with shitlibs you claim to be engaging in?

[–]Nasser[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Irrelevant to the topic and the reason I don't reply to shitlibs is risk of suspension and waste of mental energy. I post those posts here in order to challenge users and to formulate counter arguments to common arguments the enemy makes. This is usual for future debate and discussion as probably the biggest part of our struggle is winning the minds of European people and pushing them towards self advocacy and self determination against ethnic replacement.

[–]oligarchracy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

the reason I don't reply to shitlibs is risk of suspension and waste of mental energy.

But you just said the entire purpose of you spewing years of continuous concern troll posts that have gotten you periodically suspended and banned here is so we can better debate shitlibs. Now you're saying its a waste of energy and not worth the risk of suspension to debate them? Which is it?

I post those posts here in order to challenge users and to formulate counter arguments to common arguments the enemy makes.

But one sentence ago you just said it's not worth the energy and risk of suspension.

Tell me what the definition of a concern troll post is. Give us the definition.

[–]Nasser[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't feel I'm the best debater, I link the reddit posts as well if anyone here wants to try to debate with the users they can.

I don't know what the definition of concern troll is, I think it is honestly you just being upset the sub isn't a circlejerk and you aren't challenged on any view (to make it clear I am a White nationalist but I'm more moderate on other issues and not a fascist).

[–]oligarchracy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't feel I'm the best debater, I link the reddit posts as well if anyone here wants to try to debate with the users they can.

But you said yourself that debating them would risk a suspension(in actuality you know they would be banned), so why would you link to those posts knowing others would simply be banned?

I don't know what the definition of concern troll is

Oh I think you know exactly what concern trolling is. Everyone with a room temperature IQ who has spent any amount of time on the internet knows. It is universally bannable in any forum where you have a "team" or a side you claim to be on. This is literally the first sub I've ever been on where mods don't ban it consistently, despite it being explicitly listed as against forum rules.

Even though you know, I'll give you examples. An alt righter goes to a Jewish sub and says 'yo guys, I'm worried about the fact us Jews were heavily involved in the slave trade and people know this, so how can we counter our obvious involvement and profiting from the slave trade?'

Or another example is going to a black or BLM themed sub and saying 'how do you counter the fact that blacks kill way more whites than the reverse?' Or saying 'yo, we need to stop proving the "enemy" right by killing all these white kids like this recent example im linking to'. That is concern trolling, that is what you do, that is what you have always done, and until you are banned will continue to do, and you know this.

[–]Nasser[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well I am a White Nationalist, I'm not a fascist though and I've never claimed to be one. I don't encourage users to interact with the reddit posts either, that is to their discretion.

Here's a question for you: Why don't you put in even an ounce of effort on adding content or questions to this sub instead of crying and bitching about users who do (and don't comply with how YOU think they should act) like a paranoid lunatic?

[–]oligarchracy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well I am a White Nationalist, I'm not a fascist though and I've never claimed to be one.

I'm neither a white nationalist nor a fascist, and unlike you I never claim to be either.

I don't encourage users to interact with the reddit posts either, that is to their discretion.

So why do you link to these posts over and over again for years? You said it's a waste of time to debate shitlibs, but it's apparently not a waste of time to spam concern troll posts for years on these reddit posts you admit you never have any intention of debating anyone on and would instantly get a person banned? When and where are you pretending such debates ever occur exactly? Obviously not in the place you literally link to, as you admit.

[–]Nasser[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What ideology are you?