Why deny the holocaust but believe in the Holodomor hoax?

submitted by jacques1102 from self.debatealtright

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[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Oh you mean the hoax made up by western propaganda?See here for proper research. https://i.redd.it/1kf0rjnzv6g71.jpg Most of the deaths were due to american bombing raids on the country.As for North Korea?If it's such a bad place why do they allow tourists there?Also for a place that's so bad why did they open up a water park https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGjZYqxAYNM&ab_channel=SimonWilson ?This is like the swimming pools of auschwitz. As for your last point, wtf are you talking about?People do call out Britain and France's imperialism.Btw i thought european imperialism was a good thing to you?

[–]8thmonitor 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Good morning. I laughed when your "proper research" citation was some Reddit meme. First of all, it is a range of 1-3 mil. I don't think the mainsteam narrative is 3 mil deaths. But I don't think you understand demography.

A nation's total population can grow during times of mass murder. That's why your attempt to debunk the around 1 million and more deaths using population change doesn't make any sense. Mass graves of over 1 mil were found. They did not die from US bombing. They were executed.

Did you even read their point about North Korea? They mentioned how North Korea has very high rates of hunger and malnutrition: nothing to do with tourists and a water park lmao.

Who said North Korea is bad because they don't have water parks? It is bad because most North Koreans are not even allowed to leave their nation. It is also because of lower life expectancy and high levels of slavery. I do admire their opposition to Zionism.

I think their point was how the anti-imperialist USSR teamed up with muh imperialist UK to commit imperialism in Iran. Also, most here don't support past imperialism. Look at the problems it caused in Europe.

If you respond, I will respond asap.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You didn't refute the "meme"and just used an ad hominem.If there's so much evidence for the Khmer Rouge genocide, why did Cambodia make genocide denial of it illegal? https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2013-06-12/cambodia-criminalizing-denial-of-atrocities/ This is just like Germany making holocaust denial illegal.You want more evidence?Here is Israel Shamir who also denies the holocaust.He's done plenty of research on both subjects.Are you going to deny his works on Cambodia but some how believe he's telling the truth about the holocaust? https://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/18/pol-pot-revisited/ Also source about North Korea having high rates of hunger and malnutrition that doesn't come from the jewish media?You do know the jews have been lying about north korea to demoralize the regime because there isn't a Rothschild centered bank there.There's a reason why we shouldn't trust them.BTW celebrities like Dennis Rodman have visited the country and have insisted that there's no mass starvation in the country and kim is a good man.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dictators are often some of the nicest-seeming people in person. This is a well-known trait of terrible dictators. Communists in particular are obsessed with hiding their problems and making a good impression. Pyongyang is built to look like a futuristic city, but the insides of the buildings are empty, and walls hide the slums where people actually live. See the satellite footage for yourself: North Korea is all dark at night, and it has concentration camps, most people live in terrible conditions. There is footage of them sending entire army squads after one person just for leaving the country, and they even abduct people from other countries and put them in the camps, as far away as Europe.

Imagine if the mods and admins from reddit ran a country. That's what North Korea is like.

[–]8thmonitor 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What? I just explained your meme's population change calculation is not even close to how to determine the amount of deaths that took place. That's not how demography works.

Making it illegal to deny the Cambodian genocide does not mean that 1 mil and more deaths didn't happen lol. Your logic doesn't make any sense. You ignored the point that mass graves have been found and those dead bodies did not die from effects of US bombing.

I only learned about Israel Shamir today. I read the pol pot article and they also don't understand demography: You cannot determine death count based on total population change. They also made no mention of the graves. I don't even see any citations that the Cambodian people see Pol Pot was a patriot. There is evidence that proves that millions of Jews did not die in Holocaust. That article has no proof that 1 mil Cambodians and more did not die in the Cambodian Genocide. Did you read it? There are no citations.

While you are correct about Zionist exaggeration about North Korea, their high rates of hunger and malnutrition are well documented. When did Rodman say there is no mass starvation in country? I think Rodman only visited Pyongyang and the developed parts of North Korea. He didn't visit the large rural and undeveloped parts of North Korea.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Making it illegal to deny the Cambodian genocide does not mean that 1 mil and more deaths didn't happen lol. Your logic doesn't make any sense. You ignored the point that mass graves have been found and those dead bodies did not die from effects of US bombing.

GOTCHA!So by your logic you're admitting that Germany making Holocaust denial illegal isn't proof that it was fake and never happened?Mass graves are still being found even with the holocaust today.See here https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62161018 But i'm going to take a guess and say you'll claim that's a lie but some how the jewish media isn't lying about Cambodia.Even though it makes communism look bad.There is overwhelmingly evidence that jews died in the holocaust but because you're blinded by your hatred for jews you refuse to see it.

[–]8thmonitor 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Germany making it illegal to deny the holocaust isn't proof that millions of Jews never died. The real proof is the actual evidence that shows these millions of deaths never happened.

You cannot be serious: Your citation is the BBC? What do think Zionist media will report? And that story only mentions 8k victims anyway. Nowhere close to 6 mil. I think most will agree that tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands died. Just 6 mil count is impossible. I already showed you that 1 mil dead Cambodians have been found.

No one cares to lie about Pol Pot and the Cambodian Genocide. Especially not the Western gov. It is completely irrelevant. If there is any country, it is only Vietnam. The irony is that Vietnam is ran by a communist gov.

Wait so you think millions of Jews died in the Holocaust? I thought you didn't. Again, you provided no proof except an misunderstanding of demography to claim around 1 mil and more Cambodians never died under Pol Pot. There is far more evidence that millions of Jews never died in the Holocaust.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What proof are you talking about?And see you prove my point that i gave you a msm article and you write it off as zionist propaganda.This is why there's no point arguing with you.You'll deny the holocaust but believe over 100 million people died to jewish communism without any evidence of the bodies. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/

[–]8thmonitor 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You literally refuse to accept bad news on North Korea because you claim it is lies except random Youtube videos and Rodman. Then, you proudly cite BBC to support Holocaust. Even if the BBC article is real, 8k bodies are not even close to 6 mil. Again, you provided no proof except an misunderstanding of demography to claim around 1 mil and more Cambodians never died under Pol Pot.

I never said 100 million people died from communism. I don't believe that. Why did you link the USHMM site? Because you think that is proof that 6 mil Jews died? Aren't we are talking about the Cambodian genocide? Or are you switching the conversation to whether Holocaust happened or not?

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    First off,Jewish bolsheviks working with jewish bankers sounds like an oxymoron.Also, the bolsheviks revolution happened in Russia.Why the fuck would hitler give a shit about a revolution that started almost 20 years before ww2?Also the bolshevik revolution and holodomor had nothing to do with jews.As for Germany,there was a very brief "civil war" in Germany in 1919 and there was an attempt at a communist revolution but in just a few weeks both of these had been shut down. Casualties were very light, only a few hundred total and most were communists. Jews didn't play any special role in either event.You also omitted non-Jewish communist leaders because it would disrupt your narrative. Karl Liebknecht and Wilhelm Pieck were arguably number 2 and 3 behind the revolution and neither was Jewish.Also Rosa Luxemburg didn't want to start a revolution, she thought it would fail (and she was right), the revolution just kind of happened spontaneously as Germany was collapsing after Versailles.

    [–]saiditkang 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    First off,Jewish bolsheviks working with jewish bankers sounds like an oxymoron.

    And yet it's well established that wealthy Jews abroad like Jacob Schiff funded the revolution because they wanted the Czar gone and didnt care much who they had to support to make it happen. It also sounds like an oxymoron that Jews would support neonazis, and yet that is what is happening in Ukraine today.

    Also, the bolsheviks revolution happened in Russia.Why the fuck would hitler give a shit about a revolution that started almost 20 years before ww2?

    Because Jewish bolsheviks and assorted anarchists and commies attempted to spread the revolution to Germany and other European nations. Having seen how things turned out for the Russians, the Germans supported Hitler in large part because he was seen as someone who could assure such a thing would never happen in Germany.

    As for the holodomor. Ever hear of Lazar Kaganovitch, or Gengrihk Yagoda?

    Claiming Jews played no disproportionate role in the red terror is delusional. The man in charge of carrying it out was Leon Trotsky, and Lenin himself was 1/4 Jewish and a self professed judeophile.

    Here's an article covering some of what these Jews got up to during the red terror. https://www.unz.com/article/leather-jacketed-coke-snorting-jews-in-the-soviet-secret-police-torturing-raping-and-killing-gentiles-the-evidence/

    Unlike Nazis who were hunted down until they died, none of these people were ever tried for their crimes, although the notoriously paranoid(for good reason as they wound up poisoning him) Stalin did wind up giving some of them a taste of their own medicine.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    Most of the deaths were due to american bombing raids on the country.

    In 1979? The U.S had left the Vietnam theater in 1973 by the latest. I'm unaware of any military campaigns they waged in that area after time had passed.

    As for North Korea?If it's such a bad place why do they allow tourists there?

    The same reason people can visit Zoos. Doesn't mean I want to live in a Chimp exhibit.

    Edit: By the way, I just want to say I don't really care what Communists do in their own countries. If they really think life is paradise where they live, that's cool with me. I also encourage more Communists to go move to their fellow friends. I only take issue when they invade my politics and try and force it on me. No thank you, it's just not worth it.

    As for your last point, wtf are you talking about?People do call out Britain and France's imperialism

    Then why did you say Hitler started a war with Europe? That's the mainstream narrative that ignores Britain/France and the Soviet's had imperialistic goals that put Germany's existence into question.

    Btw i thought european imperialism was a good thing to you?

    What are you basing this on?

    I rather acknowledge that conquest is part of human nature, but individuals nations can fight back if they so wish.

    [–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Read the works of Israel Shamir who also denies the holocaust.He's done plenty of research on both subjects. > https://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/18/pol-pot-revisited/ Also i thought you people claim hitler was trying to save europe from the jews?That's why he invaded several european countries.He wanted them gone from europe.So were suppose to believe that hitler was ok with killing millions of europeans but let the jews live so he could deport them?What sense does that make?If the war had nothing to do with jews then why did hitler bring up the jews and blame them for europe's problems?If the war was about imperialistic goals because of losing territory in WW1 why the fuck would jews lie about a random holocaust if said war had nothing to do with jews?

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Read the works of Israel Shamir who also denies the holocaust.He's done plenty of research on both subjects

    I'll stick to my original belief that if you think Socialist countries are paradise where no one starves or dies, then go live there. I'm not going to stop you or their way of life. Just don't complain when it turns out these nations suck and you beg for refugee status...

    If the war was about imperialistic goals because of losing territory in WW1 why the fuck would jews lie about a random holocaust if said war had nothing to do with jews?

    Because there's an entire profitable industry built around victimhood. Not to mention, the religious aspect as well of Jews seeing themselves as the children of god. Hitler basically ripped off the band-aid that said no person on Earth could ever stand up to Jews and get away with it while also running a nation that demonstrated huge success by rejecting globalism and valuing race.

    It actually doesn't get anymore clear than that. The world after 1945 has gotten increasingly dark and grim. With no more positive role models who would rather put nation first over pure profit and slavery, we quickly approach the end game of a global dystopia ran by an elite group who can't be criticized because of "antisemitism".

    [–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Because there's an entire profitable industry built around victimhood. Not to mention, the religious aspect as well of Jews seeing themselves as the children of god. Hitler basically ripped off the band-aid that said no person on Earth could ever stand up to Jews and get away with it while also running a nation that demonstrated huge success by rejecting globalism and valuing race. Kinda like how Christians do the same thing.Muh 100 trillion deaths by communism.You do also know that Christians see themselves as children of God as well and believe anyone who denies Christ is going to hell.Also a successful nation by sending his people to fight in a war for his imperialistic goals.Yeah that sounds like a man that loves his people.As for your last part, funny because people claim the world only got shitty after 9/11.I thought y'all claim the 50s was the greatest generation to live?Your last part is pointing out the problems with Capitalism not jews.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    You do also know that Christians see themselves as children of God as well and believe anyone who denies Christ is going to hell.

    You mean exclusively? I'm not a Christ fan but no I've never heard them say they have a special relation with god. That would also sound extremely redundant, when Christianity accepts converts with zero hesitation. Judaism is much more reserved and club like.

    .Also a successful nation by sending his people to fight in a war for his imperialistic goals.Yeah that sounds like a man that loves his people.

    If he thought his nation was coming close to being attack, or being subjugated by a foreign power, then he still obviously loved his people.

    As for your last part, funny because people claim the world only got shitty after 9/11.I thought y'all claim the 50s was the greatest generation to live?

    There's an argument that 9/11 was one of the long term consequences of WW2. As for 50s being the greatest generation to live? Not sure who said that? I only acknowledge that life back then was more comfortable. Housing was affordable, marriages were stable, zero gay propaganda etc. But not perfect, as it was still part of the Cold War and both the U.S and Soviets had started overthrowing countries they didn't like.

    Your last part is pointing out the problems with Capitalism not jews.

    Here's a fact that will blow your mind. Jews can be Capitalists. And many of them are making the world a worse place.

    [–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    "If he thought his nation was coming close to being attack, or being subjugated by a foreign power, then he still obviously loved his people". By that logic, if trump believed america was close to being attacked by Mexico then he should invade all of North America then.Also, how is 9/11 a long term consequence of WW2?What does muslim terrorist have to do with it?Unless you believe in the conspiracy that Israel and jews did it then why would jews wait 56 years to attack america to then blame muslims?As for your last part,right!Just like everyone else can be Capitalists as well.It's not a jewish only economic system.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    By that logic, if trump believed america was close to being attacked by Mexico then he should invade all of North America then.

    Given how sucky Mexico's (and the rest of Latin America's) lack of border control that enables millions of illegal immigrants to flood the USA, this conspiracy theory would not be wrong.

    Although I prefer to argue that these nations are incompetent, rather than plotting the demise of the U.S.

    Once again, Britain, France and the Soviets were far from innocent actors prior to WW2 and they all acted within their colonial or ideological interests.

    .Also, how is 9/11 a long term consequence of WW2?

    Because Afghanistan (the country that was seen as the host of al-Qaeda) had previously been involved in wars with the Soviet Union. Osama Bin Laden also cited U.S support of Israel as a motivating factor for terror attacks (a country birthed after WW2 from former British territory).

    Hmmm, noticing a pattern here?

    Just like everyone else can be Capitalists as well.It's not a jewish only economic system.

    Except non-Jewish capitalists don't have antisemitism to shield themselves from criticism.