How They Plan to Shut Us Up.

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[–]milkmender11 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am a geneticist. Race is not a scientific concept in genetics. There are some papers that tried to argue for a definition of race by using machine learning software packages, but these arguments relied on statistical analysis and hinge entirely upon feeding a computer the number of races you want to see. Race is politically and historically important, but it is not a scientific term in genetics. It has no definition in genetic science. There have been many proposed definitions that all suffer from the same problems, the biggest one being that there is no objective measurement of racial division in humans. The subspecies concept is the closest thing approaching a definition of race that one might use in genetics, but it doesn't apply to humans. Some of the more sophisticated 'Race Realist' thought involves trying to compare the fixation index for humans against the fixation index for known subspecies of some animal populations. The fixation index is a calculated variable in genetics that measures the extent to which genes are ubiquitous within a species ('at fixation,' as opposed to various alleles). That is a misguided effort for a variety of reasons which I won't bother to spell out because I have probably lost you already. It was a good attempt on their part though, or at least shows a slightly better understanding of genetics science than I usually see from the alt right. I'm usually dealing with people at a different level. Around about say... well, your level.

Funnily enough, here on saidit most of the race realists I debate quickly realize that they need to try and get away from the genetics discussion because they immediately are out of their league. So they maneuever the conversation to history, politics, society. Which is hilarious, they go the route of the postmodernists. It's a more fruitful realm of debate for them though, I don't have as much to say about all that.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I am a geneticist. Race is not a scientific concept in genetics.

Take two Bantu people native from Africa and drop them in Norway. Ask them to produce a child.

If the child doesn't come out with fair skin, a larger brain capacity, different shaped skull, blonde hair and blue eyes like the rest of the natives living in Europe, then what non-genetic explanation is at fault? Money? Politics? Schools?

Sorry but it's a complete embarrassment to say that race has has no relation to genes. Implying otherwise is to say the people who can give birth to fair skin blond hair kids naturally, is some kind of coincidence or pure luck. Those same Europeans have been giving birth to kids who look like exactly them for thousands of years.

[–]milkmender11 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Strawman. You are talking about basic Mendellian genetics. Nobody here ever said that doesn't exist. Your conflation of that with a nonexistant genetic concept of human race is your own error, not mine. If you assume that other people have made the same error, then of course you will be unable to see your mkstake.

I never said race has no relation to genes. Of course it does. Guitars have a relation to genes. The shape of a guitar is crafted to match a human anatomy that is genetically determined. But guitars are not a scientific concept in genetics. EVERYTHING about humans implicates genetics. That doesn't mean everything is a scientific concept in genetics pertaining to human beings.

You're not going to win this, bro. You'll learn a few things, but you won't win.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never said race has no relation to genes. Of course it does. Guitars have a relation to genes. The shape of a guitar is crafted to match a human anatomy that is genetically determined. But guitars are not a scientific concept in genetics.

A guitar is not even a biological creature. Trying to mold it to look like a Human is just producing a fake copy of one.

The people who live and are native to Norway are real. Bringing a clearly Black Person from the heart of Africa and asking them to produce a White baby in front of them is an impossible task.

Evolution explains these blanks perfectly. Europe and Africa have enough environmental differences and pressures, that over thousands of years, natural selection took over and 2 different groups (or more accurately, "Races") where a result of this.

EVERYTHING about humans implicates genetics.

And those Humans can be easily classified into smaller and more identifiable groups because of that.

Notice how the conversation focused entirely on what is natural? I don't actually care about wealth status or levels of education received. That's how powerful the scientific concept of race is. You just can't pay a Black Couple a million dollars to have a White baby. There is no money in the world that can change genes like that...