Why exactly do people hate U.S Segregation?

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

I know the thread title sounds like "no duh", but I actually want to hear the arguments that Liberals always accuse Jim Crow laws of old to be some kind of evil?

On paper, historical segregation just meant that Blacks, Whites, Asians & Hispanics all just lived in their own communities by law. This also involved separate schools, separate businesses, separate sports teams etc.

In theory, this was the best type of deal Americans could have hoped for. The other option, could have just been forcefully deporting non-whites from the U.S.

But the media and all of academia wants us to believe that segregation is somehow the worse kind of racism ever, even though it involves giving each racial group their own space to live the way they want, without interference from other groups.

For example, look at this picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:African-americans-wwii-002.jpg

The media wants us to think this guy is somehow heavily oppressed, but he literally gets his own motorcycle and his own unit? I don't see anything morally wrong with that. It actually makes him look cool, that he doesn't have to share it with other races.

Or how about this one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Discrimination_in_a_restaurant_in_Juneau_in_1908.png

A restaurant openly advertises it wants White workers. Ok so what? Didn't Black restaurants also exist back then?

Nothing about Jim Crow strikes me that life was somehow unbearable for non-whites. They only had one job, to avoid interfering with white communities, but in return, they get to live in a 1st world civilization that their homelands in Africa or Mexico was still stuck in the stone ages or rife with tribal violence.

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[–]TrabWhite Nationalist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Blacks can either hate it for two reasons: Pride or secret acknowledgement that they need Whites

Either they support it because they buy the bullshit that the Civil Rights movement was a grassroots protests led by blacks and ended segregation. They may have desire to "stop gentrification" and shit like that for their neighborhoods but ultimately never go too far with it due to their blind support of the Civil Rights

Or they secretly realize they need Whites to maintain the level of civilization they are comfortable with

[–]TheWorldToCome 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Simply because people like being around whites and living in the areas white create. A big part of it that is not insignificant is also access to also have sex with white people

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I am not sure if you are trolling or not, but the U.S. form of segregation was oppressive to Blacks and nonwhites. The U.S. form of segregation was a haphazard set of policies that varied in each state and was a poor band aid solution that never fixed the root issue. The problem when you cut into is that White people didn't want to share their communities with non whites period. The actual solution is obvious, repatriation of foreigners back to their countries of origin or carve out new territories and transfer the foreigners there. Run the new territory under a provincial government and after a few decades cut off all support or give support with specific conditions that benefit the nation.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The problem when you cut into is that White people didn't want to share their communities with non whites period.

But why does it matter if Whites refuse to share?

Non-whites could always build their own parallel communities such as Greenwood or even Chinatown. Do that, and why would they care what happens outside?

but the U.S. form of segregation was oppressive to Blacks and nonwhites.

Muhammad Ali would disagree. When it came to life in Africa or America, he chose the latter.

https://quotescage.com/thank-god-my-granddaddy-got-on-that-boat/

There's also a question of what does oppressive mean in this context? For example, we can't blame segregation on any educational disparities. Blacks have 15 less IQ points on average. There is no White owned school in America that could make them smarter than what their DNA allows them to.

The stories of Blacks being denied loans also falls into the same camp. They're less likely to pay them back.

Basically, we were always told that Black failure is because slavery/jim crow somehow screwed them up. Lol no. Forcing them to move into White neighborhoods has never made them on par.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The problem with U.S. segregation is that Whites and Blacks were still sharing the same spaces but had the hassle of having to develop separate facilities, water fountains, barriers, etc. that are still a part of the shared space that both groups occupy. The community is not really exclusive and it is not good psychologically for either group to have a constant reminder that you must share a space with another group that you have no fondness for. This escalates tensions between groups and also harms local commerce because Whites are more likely to boycott black businesses because they experience more negative interactions with them. In other implementations of segregation there are exclusive spaces for the minorities and the majority and shared spaces the both groups can occupy like market places for commerce or government municipalities. The tensions are less tense because they still can go home to their exclusive community after leaving the market and it reduces contact to what is minimally necessary for the groups to coexist with each other under a single government.

Freedom of association is oppressive to any minority that lives under the thumb of a dominant culture that is hostile to them. Institutions don't build themselves and it is really difficult to build them from scratch especially if you are diaspora group that must follow the rules of the state you live under. Asians for example are a high achieving minority because they used their extreme ethnic nepotism to gain a higher economic standing in the United States. But how much influence do they actually have on the culture? Barely any besides their cuisine and video games because Jews dominate the culture and can pass as White in the political realm where Asians cannot. There is a barrier blocking them from advancing politically because pretty much every east Asian group has historical grievances against each other, they are too successful economically to have a high position in the intersectional anti-White hierarchy and are not shape shifters like Jews were they are invisible to the average person despite their influence being everywhere.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Freedom of association is oppressive to any minority that lives under the thumb of a dominant culture that is hostile to them.

AHAHAHAHA.

We saw what happened when Jim Crow was lifted. It didn't end racism. In fact, it gave rise to one of the biggest racial riots in U.S history (George Floyd protests).

There is no oppression under segregation. Blacks having their own schools frees the burden of blaming other groups for their ownproblems. If they fail, then go blame the Black Teachers or Black Principal responsible for them. It also means no affirmative action that are meant to cheat this process.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Freedom of association taken to its extreme conclusion allows Whites to exclude blacks from medical care, ability to purchase groceries or any form of exchange of goods for money, ability to enter elite institutions to advance to a higher social caste or a higher learning occupation, etc. Pure freedom of association allows a White person to watch a Black person starve to death in the towns square with a wallet full of money because nobody will give service to the Black person. There was no freedom of association even during Jim Crow, White people were not that inhumane in their treatment of Blacks because the principle of freedom of association is absurd.

Segregation is oppressive but not for the common reasons that is spewed by anti-Whites. Segregation was oppressive to Blacks because everything was enforced by Whites, curriculum was still curated by Whites (who made the textbooks?), so called segregated areas had Whites and Blacks in close proximity to each other in shared spaces, The values and narratives of Whites were still forced upon Blacks throughout white culture or popular culture with Jews pushing their revolutionary impulses on Blacks, etc. Blacks never self-actualized as a group, they always were a pet to a more dominant ethnic group in American society.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Vice versa is also true.

If a White person somehow found themselves in a Black community that rejected them, would it really make sense to ask the Blacks to love them?

Segregation was oppressive to Blacks because everything was enforced by Whites, curriculum was still curated by Whites (who made the textbooks?),

Can I see a source for this?

Black people actually owned their own banks and movie theatres. It was integration that actually brought about the mass bankruptcies of these enterprises, since the White businesses could now legally buy them up instead of being forced to stay seperated.

[–]JapsDoEverythingRiteBlack Nationalist 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sounds like a half-measure to me. If you want others to be separated from you, why wouldn't you want them to be separated the furthest possible.

Not to mention that someone has to organize, enforce and maintain said separation. These would most obviously be White leaders, and people who don't fit under this designation would live under those who do. As they do now, negroes would still blame Whites for any kind of issue that results from this arrangement. Governments would be a far easier target than incompetent teachers.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sounds like a half-measure to me. If you want others to be separated from you, why wouldn't you want them to be separated the furthest possible.

Because it really wasn't that big of a deal? Think about where the USA was before 1965. It was still rich, it was technologically advanced, and there wasn't much to complain about other than being dragged into two world wars.

It would have been ideal if minorities where just shipped off elsewhere, but given the status quo, nobody really suffered by living in your own separate community.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

American-style segregation doesn't work because the people who are supposed to be segregated actually shares the same space, just with different facilities/schools. In order to get a functioning multicultural empire you need to have designated regions where you allow minorities and possibly only minorities. They enjoy a certain degree of autonomy and you get your workforce or wathever you want from them, everyone's happy.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If we're talking Jim Crow, I believe it was possible for entire communities to exclude other groups from even interacting with them. Such was the case with Sundown Laws that said all minorities had to leave within a certain time.

Again, it was only after 1965 did the federal government intervene and outlaw Whites from protecting their own interests.

[–]FoxySDTWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Don't forget the other side of segregation.

https://twitter.com/BosqueAli/status/1500312541918121984

People are almost exclusively shown pics of "whites only" so they forget that segregation worked both ways

[–]Nasser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can't view it