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[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Not usually, although there are such people, especially over the last couple of decades. A lot of Saudi Arabian money goes into promoting Wahhabism worldwide, including also in Bosnia. I have also seen a number of Western converts - all of them gingers, actually, which is something you also noted in another thread. The converts are typically very serious about the cause of Islam. Generally when you are dealing with religion in Europe, it's a very minor and almost completely aesthetic thing, but for small, select groups of highly devout people, religion comes in a package with a set of principles and a social and political vision. This is why devout white Muslims are a more challenging topic - even an ethnopluralist policy wouldn't be able to account for them. At the mass level though this is less of a problem, because the only real identity modern secularised people have is their nationality.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You're right about promotion of wahabbism in Bosnia and Herzegovina, but the rest is not true at all, when you have ethnic tensions, religious tensions are automatically high as well. For example Sarajevo always prides itself as being multicultural city, but that's not the case when you display cross publically, you will have your car wrecked, you will have your doorway wrecked, etc.

It's only a matter of aesthetics among urbanized groups like gamers, punk-rockers, metropolitans, etc.

For example is a Muslim is shittalking Christianity, I would probably get aggressive as well even though I'm not much of a Christian, because it's tightly knitted to ethnicity.

But I also think Bosniaks are shitty because they're Bosniaks, not because they're Muslim though. They are descendants of people who traded their religion for a nice meal during the Ottoman invasion, and they feel bad about the fact that they're rapebabies, so they're overcompensating with extremist religious aesthetics quite a bit while also being two-faced subhumans who lick western boot at every step. Chechens in comparison seem loyal, so again, it's not Islam that is the problem really.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're right about promotion of wahabbism in Bosnia and Herzegovina, but the rest is not true at all, when you have ethnic tensions, religious tensions are automatically high as well. For example Sarajevo always prides itself as being multicultural city, but that's not the case when you display cross publically, you will have your car wrecked, you will have your doorway wrecked, etc.

It's only a matter of aesthetics among urbanized groups like gamers, punk-rockers, metropolitans, etc.

Right, but in this case religion is simply a clear marker for national difference, isn't it? Especially in a place like Bosnia where the different ethnicities look very similar, religious belonging serves as the demarcation line that lets you know who is Serbian, Croatian, Bosniak etc. I think this is most easily perceivable when you look at Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs - in the West, a marriage between an Orthodox Christian and a Catholic Christian would be completely unremarkable, but in Bosnia such a marriage would mean the loss of a Croat or a Serb to another nationality, hence why there is so much social pressure against such marriages even in the case of people who are basically atheists and never go to church or follow any Christian traditions. I think in modern sectarian conflicts like in Bosnia, Northern Ireland, etc. religion is reduced to a simple proxy for nationality, but if you have a different opinion I would be interested to hear it.

For example is a Muslim is shittalking Christianity, I would probably get aggressive as well even though I'm not much of a Christian, because it's tightly knitted to ethnicity.

It is a complex issue. Depending on what is being said, I would probably respond as well, although to be completely frank with you, I would also do the same if anyone were to criticise ancient European paganism and pagan societies, even if the person doing that is a European Christian.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, everything you said is right, religion is more of a proxy for nationality, I just thought you were downplaying the role it plays in these places. There is some hyperpolarity at play here where (even without extra-national pressures imo) people are ultrareligious (majority to the point of fanaticism) and also being super hypocritical when you contrast their beliefs and behaviour. So in a sense, Bosniak Muslim "doesn't care that much" about Islam because he drinks alcohol, swears, and whatnot, and at the same time will eagerly defend his religion, even in extremist manners, because it would up his in-group status as well. It similarly goes for Catholics as well, although the polarity isn't as extreme as in Muslim case.

Btw., last paragraph = based.