What is your opinion on the Ghost Of Kyiv?

submitted by Edjean50 from self.debatealtright

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[–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

There's an incredible amount of fake news involved in this war, possibly unlike anything we've ever seen before. Even the whole Western media perception of how the war is playing out clearly contradicts what's actually happening on the ground.

For example, look at both of these article's headlines.

'The war in Ukraine hasn't gone well for Russia. But it has more weapons it can deploy':

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1084033803/the-war-in-ukraine-hasnt-gone-well-for-russia-but-it-has-more-weapons-it-can-dep

'Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60626921

This article (and Blinken) is particularly delusional. It's the same kind of talk as the American spooks claiming that Kabul would be encircled and fall within 90 days, when the Taliban didn't even bother encircling it and it fell in less than 7. It's a feedback loop: fake news is propagated through the mass media and becomes 'truth'; the mass media believe their own fake news and interpret future events through the lens of this 'truth', and thus move further and further away from reality each iteration.

"If it's the intention of Moscow to try somehow to topple the government and install its own puppet regime, 45 million Ukrainians are going to reject that one way or the other," he said.

As if to say that the current regime isn't a Judeo-NATO-EU puppet.

Stiff resistance by Ukrainian forces continued to hamper Russian advances across the country on the ninth day of the invasion.

Asked if he was convinced Ukrainian [sic!] could win, he said: "Over time, absolutely."

Now, let's look at the reality. Wikipedia's list of military engagements with links to each individual one includes the current result of each engagement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_engagements_during_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

And let's tally the number of each:

Ten 'Ongoing'

Nine Russian victories

Two Ukrainian victories

Two 'Inconclusive'

So... of battles with clear outcomes, Russia has won nine and Ukraine two. If Russia is winning over 4x the engagements of Ukraine... just how exactly is a Ukrainian victory 'absolutely' possible? The only war that they're winning is the 'information war' (i.e. the fake news, propaganda war), with the whole Western media willingly becoming the Zelensky regime's propaganda department.

Even after Kiev falls, Zelensky has fled or died, and the rest of the country begins crumbling without a ruling regime to fight for, these losers will still preserve this narrative. 'Just keep waiting, goys! The resistance will make a comeback! The Ukrainian government-in-exile will make a comeback!'

[–]Blackbrownfreestuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How the hell does that match the Ukrainian triumphalist narrative

It took Germany six weeks to invade France, but talking heads claimed Kiev (Kyiv in wrongspell) would fall in 3 days. The russian blitzkrieg is taking so long, hence the notion that Ukraine's fierce warriors have defeated Putins army of toddlers.

[–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

By adopting an initially alarmist/defeatist view (three days), the inevitable refutation of that view (obviously Kiev wouldn't fall in three days, since it's the Zelensky regime's HQ and by far the most populous city) actually aids the current triumphalist view. The level of triumphalism right now would be less sustainable if they instead said 'one month': not enough time has surpassed to refute that claim.

Initial alarmism/defeatism reinforces overall optimistic/triumphalist narratives like this 'Ghost of Kiev' nonsense. 'The worst case scenario hasn't happened, goys, stop being downers and accept everything is going to be absolutely great!'

Now they're going to be stuck in this phase for, at the very least, several months. That being said, a new alarmist view (Ukraine is simply Putin's Sudetenland, he plans to invade more countries!) related to the contemporary obsession with reductio ad Hitlerum has been out there as well, but it doesn't necessarily contradict the other. Putin could still be 'Russian Hitler', lose in his 'Sudetenland', and later attack some other place instead. He'll be 'Russian Hitler' whether he wins or loses, of course. That's absolutely assured.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I hope these Russia/Germany comparisons come to an end.

Putin doesn't have half the braincells, nor the same courage that Hitler did.

I'll also point out that the French Army was an even match for Germany (Hitler was expecting a million casualties for conquering France). Ukraine is much smaller than Russia yet the latter still doesn't have complete air superiority.