Russia plans to hold first anti fascist conference in August

submitted by JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist from self.debatealtright

Do they not realize who their main supporters are in the West?

Russia will continue the military operation in Ukraine until its "goals are achieved" and will host the first international "anti-fascist" conference in August, says Defense Minister Shoigu.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1498606093601316864

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[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

This is pure farce, there is nothing more to say about it, really. Just like the rest of our contemporaries, Putin too seems to be living in the wrong century.

Do they not realize who their main supporters are in the West?

Probably contrarian conservatives, if I have to be honest. I think most fascists stopped supporting Russia a few years ago when it became obvious that Putin has no revolutionary intentions at all.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

No this is good they're gonna do a whole Nuremberg tribunal on the Ukrainian leadership if they win it'll be absolutely hilarious to watch the Americans try to spin it.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Putin's boomer brain is melting every day. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts hallucinating and sees Hitler everywhere.

If we somehow survive this saga, I hope to god we start criminalizing age limits. It's just too risky to keep some of these old people past their expiry date.

[–]Airbus320 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ok teenigger

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

WTF?

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

Its an excuse to do a nuremberg on Ukrainians. Putin is a nationalist, he knows that invasions are more justified under the excuse of anti fascism.

A lot of DR people can't get this nuance.

Plus, there's no point trying to rehabilitate fascism/Nazism. It had its time and is a stale brand. Especially for east euros who have been genocided by nazis.

Nationalism is a much more palatable brand.

[–]Blackbrownfreestuff 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yah I read this as Putin making Western liberals eat their own bullshit. Since literally everything in the west turns into blaming imaginary nazis or fascists, it make sense for him to brand his military campaign as an anti-nazi operation. Putin isn't dumb. He knows neonazi white supremacists aren't the threat to Russia.

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, anti fascist hysteria is one thing Russia and the West have in common.

[–]TrabWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's more so like their state religion after 1945. "WE DEFEATED THE NAZIS, ANY ENEMIES WE HAVE IN THE FUTURE ARE NAZIS"

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It has actually been emphasized more under Putin than in the USSR. Victory Day was mostly just a Memorial Day in the USSR now it is a massive celebration in Putins Russia.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

To claim that Putin is for nationalism is quite a stretch given what he stated in his war declaration speech before invading Ukraine. But I can't blame him for being wary of CIA funded "nationalists" in the FSU sphere to be honest, given historical precedent of the various color revolutions they've caused. The current actions in Ukraine are a direct consequences of NATO "nazis" and their actions in Belarus and perhaps Kazakhstan.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Read anatoly karlin article Russia's nationalist turn.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Karlin is coping, just like that other Russian guy on Twitter. Putin is the face of Russian liberal democracy - Westerners oppose him only because they do not understand that a strongman like him is the only man who can make Russian liberalism work.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

He's not coping at all. He was for years a strong critic of the Putin regime.

Putin is anything but the face of Russian liberal democracy. He's the emperor who's ruled Russia for 22 years straight. He has greatly de-liberalized the country and has achieved great economic and cultural autarky for Russia.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I cannot agree. Putin is running a multicultral parliamentary democracy based on some sort of bizarre post-Soviet mythos. The only thing that sets his regime apart from Western democracies is the suppression of woke elements and the level of control exercised by politicians. Many people have tried to assign some autocratic dignity to him, and he has repeatedly purged and shown contempt towards these people. He is simply the Russian Ataturk. I do not see how you can say his regime is not liberal, given the structural similarities of the Russian state to the Western liberal model. Once Putin is gone, all that will be left is the liberal institutions he has created, strengthened and protected.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You have got to be kidding me.

There are no elections in Russia. Elections are blatantly rigged and the parties are more or less seen as sock puppets for Putin. Everyone understands that he's the dictator and the military-intelligence apparatus is in charge.

They maintain the veneer of democracy because of the optics look. Even China and Iran pretend to be democracies.

It's kind of like the Roman Emperor before Diocletian's reforms. The Roman Emperors maintained the veneer of the republic and republican institutions like the senate and tribunes were kept running. But the Emperors ruled as dictators and everyone knew it and acknowledged it.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There are no elections in Russia. Elections are blatantly rigged and the parties are more or less seen as sock puppets for Putin. Everyone understands that he's the dictator and the military-intelligence apparatus is in charge.

This was the exact situation in Ataturk's Turkey, too. And it is the situation in the West as well, with the exception that in the West financial oligarchs are in charge and the political class is completely servile - just what I said earlier. In the US specifically, there are even more parallels with the CIA and military-industrial complex calling the shots.

They maintain the veneer of democracy because of the optics look. Even China and Iran pretend to be democracies.

Apparently, this optics strategy has not been very effective. I used to think that Putin was only pragmatically pretending to be a liberal, too, but the foundations that he has laid for the new Russian state make it incredibly obvious that he is not a secret autocratic populist ultranationalist. He is a liberal. His new constitution is liberal democratic. The political culture that he is forming of "denazification" wars and shapeless post-Soviet nationalism, the purges of nationalists - is this all just political theater, some form of bizarre deceptive manoeuvre? It's ridiculous. He is a typical liberal leader, who acts in typical liberal ways and adheres to typical liberal beliefs. The reason he seems different is simply because he is mostly competent.

It's kind of like the Roman Emperor before Diocletian's reforms. The Roman Emperors maintained the veneer of the republic and republican institutions like the senate and tribunes were kept running. But the Emperors ruled as dictators and everyone knew it and acknowledged it.

The Roman state was an aristocratic republic ruled by patrician elites. It's got nothing in common with modern liberalism and democracy, even if the latter may have appropriated some of the myths of the former.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

His new constitution is liberal democratic.

Care to elaborate?

Anyway, is Xi also a liberal in your opinion?

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Care to elaborate?

If Putin really was an anti-democrat and anti-liberal, he would not have replaced one liberal democratic constitution with another one. He would have instituted something else.

Anyway, is Xi also a liberal in your opinion?

I am not particularly well read on China, but I would not describe Xi as a liberal. To my knowledge, Chinese political institutions are based on the communist model. I am sure there are people who would accuse China of liberalism because of its economic policy, though.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How on Earth is Putin a liberal?

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What else could he be? It is important to remember that liberalism is a broad category. Putin is different from the current Western liberals, but he is obviously a representative of the liberal tradition.

[–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I just came across Karlin's articles on Unz since Keith Woods was reiterating some of Karlin's claims on his conversation with the Chilean, 'Chief Red Pill'. They immediately struck me as suspicious. In fact, the article that Keith was likely talking about (https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-nationalist-turn) is probably all nonsense.

For example, he writes the following about Article 282, which he claims was their 'hate speech' law:

At this point, you would have to try really hard – marching down the street in an SS costume, throwing “Sieg Heils” level hard – to fall afoul of it

Looking into Article 282, it is only related to social media 'hate speech'.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/12/19/state-duma-approves-putins-proposal-to-soften-extremism-law-a63893

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/12/28/putin-softens-jail-terms-for-posting-extremist-memes-a63989

It never covered the hypothetical situation of goose stepping as a 'Nazi' while yelling out 'Sieg Heil!' It was simply the relaxation of a law that was so Left-wing that people were being arrested even for posting 'hateful memes' on sites like VKontakte or Telegram.

Someone even writes in the comments:

[Prosecution under Article 282 is] on the rise again in 2021 and a VK comment in poor taste is enough to risk prosecution

I suspect that if I spent a lot of time examining each claim he makes on his multiple Unz articles on this general 'based Putin' topic, I'd find that most of his claims are simply bunk.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You miss the point. There are always laws against hate and so on in every country. The thing is the enforcement of the laws.

In the west, the regime is anti white and it penalizes only whites. In Russia it penalized lefties, skinheads and islamists alike. The thing is that the Putin regime is tolerant towards normal Russian nationalists. It still opposes extreme right wingers for obvious reasons: Nazism conducted a genocide on Russians in WW2 and extreme right wing natioanlism could spur secessionism and civil wars in Russia's ethnic minority republics.

Putin has accepted most of the demands of mainstream Russian nationalists-

  1. Russians as the state forming people in the constitution.

  2. Barring dual citizens from government.

  3. Recognizing the Donbas republics

  4. Reconquering Ukraine.

  5. Protecting ethnic Russians outside of Russia

He's acceded to all of that.

A reminder: Alexander Solzhenytsin liked Putin and was close to him. Solzhenytsin is as based as you can possibly get. A real intellectual and visionary unlike incel Jew-lover Nietzsche.

[–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Article 282 is to me a mere example of how Karlin's claims appear suspicious when I have no time to go through all of them. I'm claiming that all of the claims in that article are likely to be to varying degrees bunk.

Making russkiye the 'state-forming people' in the constitution, formally privileging them above rossiyane is barely an improvement over the situation as is. It would be like the United States declaring that White Americans are the 'state-forming people' while everything else remains the same. To me it simply seems performative, a bone thrown to Russian ethnonationalists, an olive branch that he's extended to them because they're the only people who are seriously going to be motivated in this current conflict, alongside Soviet-nostalgic Sovoks. Without them, he doesn't really have anyone who would willingly fight in the Ukraine. Indeed, the Russian POWs are all saying that they were told they were on a training exercise and even that Zelensky had already surrendered and that the war was already practically won. Russian ethnonationalists would be utterly foolish to hold onto that olive branch as though Putin has all of a sudden seen the light and is now 'our guy'.

Your 3-4-5 are only things that we could say he's doing since the past few days, and I wonder why it took him so long even to do #3. A few weeks ago I'd be like: 'What are you even talking about?' since only #1 and #2 seemed correct at that time, so we're talking about very recent changes here.

I don't view anything that Putin is doing in regards to ethnonationalism as sincere: it's about co-optation through making symbolic concessions. Putin must feel real dumb for persecuting nationalists in the past, because both they and their Western counterparts would gladly be cheering Putin on instead of seriously contemplating as so many on the DR are whether the Jew regime in the Ukraine might actually be a lesser of evils. Instead, he made enemies of ethnonationalists, probably even murdering some like Tesak, so now he has to use Wagner Group, Kadyrovites, Sovoks and others instead.

I think Putin's 'anti-Nazism' is utterly irrational: A bunch of Russian 'neo-Nazis' have no relation to Germany's mass slaughter of Russians. And if his problem is not historical, but that they'll kick in some Muslim's head and therefore ruin his little multiracial project, we should be reminded that these rossiyane are far more violent than ethnonationalists, and that these people are only here because the likes of Putin wanted them to be. There would be no 'racist' violence without multiracialism: no Christchurch shooting if NZ didn't trigger it by bringing in Muslims in the first place.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Russians didn't bring in Muslims, the chechens have been therr for millennia and the tatars are 80% Slavic genetically.

Most central Asians are seasonal workers who earn money and return. They don't stay and acquire citizenship and certainly not welfare.

As for getting support from western racists... They are utterly powerless and thus useless to him. Russian nationalists are now fighting for him

The 10,000 chechens are auxiliary troops lije all empires have. The US had kurds in Iraq for example. Germans had Hungarians and Romanians in Russia.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

unlike incel Jew-lover Nietzsche.

Lol! Fuck you.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting if true, I had no idea they'd cut down on hate speech convictions like that. I hadn't followed Russia too closely till the translation of his war speech popped up on telegram so had a skewed perception of his policy on nationalism.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Its an excuse to do a nuremberg on Ukrainians.

That's not necessary at all, the basis for any trials will always be international law anyway.

Plus, there's no point trying to rehabilitate fascism/Nazism. It had its time and is a stale brand.

Being actively antifascist goes a step beyond that, don't you think?

Nationalism is a much more palatable brand.

Depends on the nationalism. I don't think hard line nationalism would be much better received anyway, but because it is a more general ideology, it would be less articulated. There are also a lot of fake destructive nationalisms, Soviet nationalism for example is one of those examples where populist nationalism was made to serve the cause of the international world revolution. There are many other examples of this as well, and I am sure you could also think of several.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

There are nationalist parties in parliament worldwide and it's a much more palatable ideology. Nazism is simply toxic and for good reason. The nazis started a world war, caused the downfall of European empires, and killed tens of millions of white Europeans along with uncountable numbers of massacres and war crimes. Trying to rehabilitate the 3rd reich is the dumbest thing the DR does.

You don't need to hitch your wagon to such an odious brand. The idea that Europeans deserve to have their own homelands where they are privileged and protected and their governments should act in their racial interest is nothing unpalatable. It's the default position of any country outside the west.

In Japan, Japanese are privileged and the idea that state policies should be geared towards fulfilling the interests of the Japanese people is the obvious default position. Its the same for Chinese in Singapore and China, Jews in Israel and Arabs in Saudi Arabia. Outside of mindwashed western countries, multiculti racial abnegationis accepted nowhere.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are nationalist parties in parliament worldwide and it's a much more palatable ideology.

You are not referring to AfD type of stuff, surely?

You have also sidestepped my point. There is a very large difference between rehabilitating Nazism and being anti-fascist. Even many American conservatives refuse to accept this term.

I can somewhat understand taking China as your model, but Japan and Singapore are on the whole pretty dystopian states. If you think Japan exemplifies nationalism, then we would be forced to conclude that nationalism on its own has many shortcomings. This is why I said that a focus on nationalism alone tends to lead to a loss of articulation, because by nature nationalism only refers to a very narrow field of politics, specifically legitimacy.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wait, didn't you admire the SS?

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah, they were kind of murderous assholes. I greatly respect the German military.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What's wrong with admiring the SS?

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nothing.

[–]AidsVictim69 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's merely for internal propaganda.