Wikipedia's Race & IQ article is the most dishonest literature in all of human history.

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

The main problem is that there are unscientific approaches to maniplations of IQ data in order to push a racist agenda, by contrast to scientific and anthropological data that has shown since the early 20th century how Eugenics and these IQ studies are skewing data in the direction of favoring a master white race of some sort. Moreover, blacks often have IQs above 100, as do other groups of people. It's not that difficult to test above 100. For groups of people unfamiliar with IQ tests, it's unfair to include them in a study with people familiar with IQ tests. The approaches of the sources you mention - including Murray's bibliography of authors - are of course heavily biased against any data that does not suit their purposes, including especially all of the research and evidence since the early 20th century that Eugenics cannot address the rich variety of ethnicities in society. Look also to the logical outcomes of these discussions about IQs among one group of people. Would you plan to segregate these people, to keep them away from the higher IQ people? We know this doesn't work. Marry a white person if you want, and do not pass judgement on someone else if they marry someone who is not white. It's as simple of that. There will be no genetically pure race of people, ever. There will always be a mixture of some sort.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The main problem is that there are unscientific approaches to maniplations of IQ data in order to push a racist agenda,

Life is racist because evolution was racist. That's the final pill for anyone who still refuses to accept the harshest scientific facts.

There's a book called the 10,000 year explosion that answered the question what are the chances that every single Human being on Earth could be the exact the same? It was like 1 in 1 quadrillion or some other unfathomable number that no one here can imagine.

Basically, it's up to Liberals to explain how is it possible for Nature to be equal? Dogs aren't equal to cats, birds aren't equal to ants. Lions are not equal to fish. Some animals have wings, others have sharp claws, some can see in the dark and other animals are completely blind.

We don't call this racism, we call these biological differences. And the brain being one of the most important organs in existence is not exempt from these factors. If Africans had the exact same selection pressures as Europeans and Asians did then none of this IQ controversy would exist. But for most of history, the darkest parts of Africa had people living in mudhuts, without written languages or an understanding of the wheel. This hollywood sci-fi idea that Africa was always home to Space Shuttles and skyscrapers is a myth. Notice when Europeans arrived on the continent and begun the process of colonization, did any African city even begin to resemble a Western one?

And once Europeans were ejected from the continent, Africa went back to being a primitive mess like it always was before?

That's the price of denying race and IQ. History is the great equalizer and the most advanced civilizations to exist have always been either European or East Asian in origin. No one else has come close to eclipsing them.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

And one more thing to point out socks,

Even when Blacks have scored above 100 on IQ test, that doesn't mean they're still equal or the smartest. In fact, the smartest blacks are actually closer to the the poorest and dumbest whites. That's how big of a gulf we are talking with intelligence. It goes waaaaaaaaay higher than where you think it stops...

https://files.catbox.moe/btnlkd.png

I only care about facts, so dismissing this evidence with "it hurts my feelings" is completely unscientific. All the answers are staring us right in the face, but people are still arrogant enough to look at the above graph and say "I see no difference".

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Thank you - though it seems your long comments in the threads are focused exclusivly on Blacks in the US and their minor differences in IQ scores. If you want to address "race and IQ", you have to consider race in general and IQ in general, and you have to consider all of the available research, not just the bits you like. You also have to consider income disparities and privileges of those who can afford an education, or a reasnable diet. You also have to see what your anti-Black concerns would lead to if you were able to implement solutions for their segregation from other groups. And you have to consider the recent statistics, rather than charts from 1995, to see that the SAT scores are improving among Blacks, and are not so different from the scores of some other groups, here: https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-sat-scores-over-time Essentially: the IQ and SAT differences are significant, especially when one considers other social and economic factors, opportunities to get in to good high schools, to be taught by good teachers, and to have time to study for exams, rather than keep a job after work, or engage in sports. Average SAT scores are better among those who've had a number of privileges, and who were pushed to study every night. There are going to be improvements in scores, and the current differences are not significant.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Thank you - though it seems your long comments in the threads are focused exclusivly on Blacks in the US and their minor differences in IQ scores.

No, that is false. I clearly posted a link to the Japan IQ study as proof they have always been smarter than the West in the past 100 years.

The Black/White IQ has been the most extensively studied so it tends to be referenced more. But it's a fallacy to think the comparisons are only meant for those races. I talk about Brazil all the time and that's a country that is rife with mixing races from all over the world. But it's not in the top 10 of most powerful or successful countries. As it's always been understood, Brazil is actually third world with a government that is dysfunctional. In other words, it's a leading model for why mixing different biological IQ's ends in misery and failure.

You also have to consider income disparities and privileges of those who can afford an education, or a reasnable diet.

All of Eastern Europe was under Communism from 1945 ~ 1989. That meant 99% of the population was poor and starving. Yet, even when compared to Africa at the same time, they were light years ahead of them. Who put the first man and satellite into Space? The Soviets did.

If you think the average citizen of the Soviet Union was privileged or even anywhere as rich, you are nuts.

And you have to consider the recent statistics, rather than charts from 1995, to see that the SAT scores are improving among Blacks, and are not so different from the scores of some other groups, here:

You are lying. It says Whites score 1112, Asians scored 1239 and Blacks scored 934. Where does that put Blacks? Less smarter than both groups...

By the way, that website is kinda cheating because it combines both math and english SAT scores together. When you break it down by just math, the racial differences are almost 1.5x as big. As well as the fact the Black math scores have stayed flat for 10+ years...

https://files.catbox.moe/8zmnk2.png

Average SAT scores are better among those who've had a number of privileges, and who were pushed to study every night.

So why don't black people leave America then and go live in their own countries that would award them "privileges"? Why are they still living in a White country that claims to depress their IQ, when Africa is a big continent absent of them?

This is the hypocritical double standard being pushed by you. If Blacks still fail at school while living in rich Western socities that clearly offer them more, than why aren't we seeing more black geniuses coming out from places that are 100% black?

There are going to be improvements in scores, and the current differences are not significant.

So being 2x richer is not significant?

Blacks once again fall at the bottom, whereas Whites & Asian are 1.5 ~ 2x wealthier. This denial is getting ridiculous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

So much to address here I don't know where to begin. Essentially, you are picking the most convenient examples, rather than looking at the appropriate spread of data. And it's not cheating to combine English and Math scores. Also keep in mind that there are several forms of intelligence. If you've taken the SAT and you know others who've taken the SAT, you will know how miniscule the difference of 100 or 200 points are for the overall results of that test, and that this is ONLY an example of how those students were able to prepare for the test, many of whom have had special guidance. I remember your note on the Japanese study, which is just one example. And let's not forget what it is you hope to achieve with this focus on minor differences in IQ and SAT scores.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

And it's not cheating to combine English and Math scores.

Being good at English but bad at Math will disqualify you from a lot of jobs. Why do you think they offer separate courses in school instead of combining them? It would be useless.

Essentially, you are picking the most convenient examples, rather than looking at the appropriate spread of data.

My spread of data literally compares continents. Europeans, even when they were poor and starving, are still smarter than all of African history. In fact, there is nothing to imply the opposite.

The examples of IQ Testing and SAT Scores in America are just micro examples of the many race differences that exist. We have world history as proof that European and Asian intelligence is objectively higher than Blacks.

Also keep in mind that there are several forms of intelligence.

Here's a riddle for you. Since when are all forms of intelligence weighted the same? Once again, someone who can solve math problems more faster is qualified to do jobs that just speaking English wont carry you far enough.

If you've taken the SAT and you know others who've taken the SAT, you will know how miniscule the difference of 100 or 200 points are for the overall results of that test

Given what we know about Race & Income, those 200 points are enough to make 2x the salaries or be 2x more likely to become CEO's than blacks.

I remember your note on the Japanese study, which is just one example.

Hong Kong is the exact same thing. And so is Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore. It once again boils down to Race that gives these people an advantage over the West.

And let's not forget what it is you hope to achieve with this focus on minor differences in IQ and SAT scores.

What we need to achieve is forcibly removing Black people out of White countries because they've failed to close the gap after 400 years. Since you claim oppression is holding back their intelligence, there is no moral reason to keep Black people around White people since they will always struggle. You and I would thus agree, a one way ticket to Africa would solve their intelligence problems...

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What we need to achieve is forcibly removing Black people out of White countries because they've failed to close the gap after 400 years.

Dude.

Not to change the subject, but this is indeed impossible. For evidence of difficulties everyone would face, look to historical accounts of forced expulsions. These have been humanitarian crises. Moreover - assume you have a way to determing exactly who you consider 'black' and then a reliable means to expel them. What then? Look also at history texts for this. It would be civil war, and destroy the social fabric of the US. Other minorities would also be expelled. It's not like the racist thugs are going to expel one group and then leave the other groups alone, because of an IQ or SAT test. Many of these low-IQ thugs will want to remove other minorities. Consider the shadow costs of trying to reverse historical trends, even if it were possible (which it isn't).

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Dude. Not to change the subject, but this is indeed impossible. For evidence of difficulties everyone would face, look to historical accounts of forced expulsions. These have been humanitarian crises. Moreover - assume you have a way to determing exactly who you consider 'black' and then a reliable means to expel them. What then? Look also at history texts for this. It would be civil war, and destroy the social fabric of the US.

Malcolm X preached the exact same thing about mandatory separation up until his assassination in the 1960s. And before him, Marcus Garvey had paid for his own line of ships to ferry across descendants of slaves back to Africa. Neither men brought about civil war.

But more importantly, this procedure should actually be self voluntary. Once again, in your own words you claim that Blacks living next to Whites is impacting their intelligence. Any Black person can pack their bags and thus leave America themselves. Who is holding them back here? It can't be White people.

In fact, it's only non-whites who benefit from being around white people. White people have NOTHING to gain by being chained down next to blacks and other minorities. That's not how the race relations work.

Other minorities would also be expelled. It's not like the racist thugs are going to expel one group and then leave the other groups alone, because of an IQ or SAT test.

So what's the issue with these minorities returning to their own country? For example, Mexico quite obviously borders the U.S. What are Mexican Americans afraid of if they had go back home? Are they afraid of... other Mexicans? Sorry but that's not the White man's problem, especially since minorities complain that White people "oppress" them.

Consider the shadow costs of trying to reverse historical trends, even if it were possible (which it isn't).

America has wasted trillions of dollars on pointless wars and even spreading diversity itself. If every non-white person left the country, the expenses would pay for itself in just a day. Or look at last year's George Floyd riots? That was the most expensive riot in U.S history. America would never have to pay for such a thing if all blacks had left the country and never returned...

But oddly, you still haven't answered my question. Why are non-whites forcing themselves to live around Whites while complaining that the system oppresses them? Since when does it make sense to run and live next to your oppressor, instead of trying to get away from them?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The US is the home of blacks and other minorities. There is no other home. If you want to remove immigrants to the N. American area, you'd have to pick a date. Pick the 16th century for the removal of Europeans, perhaps. But which countries would accept these immigrants from the US?

Why are non-whites forcing themselves to live around Whites while complaining that the system oppresses them?

THis is not happening. Non-whites aren't forcing themselves to live around whites. This is the home of non-whites. Regarding the 'system', this could be one of several 'systems'. In any place, the majority can and has oppressed the minorities. This can be overcome, but the progress is slow in some parts of the US.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The US is the home of blacks and other minorities.

None of the founding fathers were black. The very first law passed by Congress said the USA was for whites only. The U.S continued to pass immigration laws up until the 1960s that focused primarily on European Whites only.

Without white people, the USA would not exist. Malcolm X at the very least, recognized this divide and would have supported seceding off a small state and establishing that as a new black country. I guess that's better than rounding up all Blacks and deporting them by force to Africa, which is what any country does when it wants to eject unwanted citizens...

But which countries would accept these immigrants from the US?

What do you mean "accept"? Didn't you hear that diversity is suppose to be a strength? Since Western countries are told all the time they must take in every single immigrant even when the native population is against it, perhaps it's time for third world countries in Africa to try it? What could they be afraid of? A million+ black Americans will bring them new food, or "enrich" their neighborhoods. They should be begging for the new arrivals to "boost" their economy, should they not?

THis is not happening. Non-whites aren't forcing themselves to live around whites.

So why did more than a million people from Central & South America sneak in through the USA via illegal immigration? America did not put a gun to their head and tell them to climb the fence over Texas. They literally broke the law and refuse to get away from white people when told to leave. And this happens every day, for the past 50 years....

In any place, the majority can and has oppressed the minorities. This can be overcome, but the progress is slow in some parts of the US.

It will never be overcome. Last year's George Floyd riots is proof that the more diversity in America, the more white people are targeted and have their entire neighborhoods attacked. And yet the same "oppressed" minorities refuse to leave White people alone and demand they get to live with them, even though White people can exist without them.

It's hypocrisy of the highest standard. The system itself was built by white people and only idiot immigrants who failed to fix their own countries seem to think they are entitled to it. They can always go back to where they came from

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know this is a double post but there's something I forgot to mention

The US is the home of blacks and other minorities.

The U.S was founded by European settlers who had to tame the land, establish a government system and defeat rival tribes so they could stake a claim to the continent. Black Americans are the descendants of Africans who fought wars amongst each other and enslaved the losing tribes that eventually got sold off to European traders who wanted cheap labor. When they were brought to the USA, they were never seen as citizens or equals to the people who were busy creating democracy or two story buildings. For most of their existence, they were human versions of farm equipment who helped picked cotton or perhaps cut down trees. But Black slaves were never once responsible for overseeing the future of the USA.

When slavery ended, the original plan was not to keep the slaves. It was Lincoln's goal to send them back to their real home back in Africa. And given he had just won a Civil War, the slaves were in no position to challenge this. It was only after he was assassinated did these plans change, and America's future was doomed to racial warfare that we see to this day...