you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Destiny and Vaush don't really argue. They gish gallop and they pilpul and certain points they just refuse to discuss. They don't really 'win'. The best they ever do is force a stalemate by blocking the ability of the dissident opponent to find commonly agreed upon facts and then build those facts into truth. Destiny and Vaush know when a fact is inconvenient for them and they make the debate about reality itself as a stall tactic. They do not argue in good faith and nobody should debate them.

edit. and I agree with your take about Sean Last being one of our brightest. Makes me wonder how many more Sean Last's are out there but afraid to get involved or don't know how too.

[–]socksuckersocks_sucks 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fact that Destiny doesn't even bring any facts into a debate and instead opts to play video games throughout is enough to determine that his chief goal is essentially that of a multi-player video game: "pwning noobs". It's all about deploying various tricks that they have stored in a mental "box" in order to bait and confuse the opponent, and nothing to do with getting closer to objective truth. They simply deploy these tricks until the time runs out. If they can't "win", these tricks can be used to stall to the end such that it appears a tie.

Last has spent hours debating Destiny on numerous occasions, possibly even on the same topics. Destiny just needs to generate views, from which his channel is large enough to generate money. For us, the main "point" of doing this is to use debate channels and people with large audiences like Destiny to disseminate our righteous messages in spaces we normally cannot. It is much more important to engage in this than in conversational livestreams about Covid or whatever the likes of Evola said. The sheer difference in the amount of views says it all: debating provides much greater return for the amount of time or effort put into it.

Finally, people who are banned from YouTube like Martinez or Handsome Truth are able to still spread the message to YouTube in this roundabout way. Whereas most DR content goes in the other direction, exceedingly away from YouTube and other surface websites and into more secluded spaces in which we are preaching to the choir. Reddit was particularly successful in doing this, becoming one massive echo chamber in which mainstream ideology and narratives go unchallenged and where normies can go without ever encountering ideas that contradict their own. Someone can be a total Leftist who just happens to express a single contrary idea, such as "trans women aren't real women", and that's all it takes to be banned.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that there are certain debaters. Like Destiny. That turn the audience off. In fact that might be his real strategy. If I'm winning I'm winning and if I'm losing I make the debate boring and unwatchable. You can't have a productive debate if both opponents aren't somewhat willing to find common ground or even embrace the counter point. That's what made the blood-sports good. They had a lot of youthful impressionable people involved in the debate not just watching it. Today's debates simply feeling like entrenched tactical exchanges.

Personally I've always thought that the interview format is better for us. Preferable with an intelligent yet naive opponent who is trying to steel man our viewpoints. When people struggle to find something they disagree with that's when there's productive exchange. We use to have a lot of exchanges like this 3 or 4 years ago.

Finally, people who are banned from YouTube like Martinez or Handsome Truth are able to still spread the message to YouTube in this roundabout way.

True, and I'm not saying to totally abandon all debate channels but there are certain people that I just don't see a point engaging with.