Sean Last

submitted by [deleted] from (self.debatealtright)

Sean Last is one of the sharpest guys in the alt-right/race realist circle.

Here he is debating Destiny on immigration and race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5oz6TsxfXE

The sad truth is, everyone but our A level guys are losing debates to legitimate lefties like Destiny and Vaush...either on points or by KO. Best just to admit it and make adjustments. What I make of that is just an eb and flow of energy if you will. The alt-right came out with bold new ideas 5 or 6 years ago, but people have had a chance to develop good responses. I think it's starting to swing the other way now, and of course, reality is on our side. It's nice to see a guy like Sean who does so well in these debates.

Here's his Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK1Uk2f36aglexxLkfOWnEQ

all 14 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Destiny and Vaush don't really argue. They gish gallop and they pilpul and certain points they just refuse to discuss. They don't really 'win'. The best they ever do is force a stalemate by blocking the ability of the dissident opponent to find commonly agreed upon facts and then build those facts into truth. Destiny and Vaush know when a fact is inconvenient for them and they make the debate about reality itself as a stall tactic. They do not argue in good faith and nobody should debate them.

edit. and I agree with your take about Sean Last being one of our brightest. Makes me wonder how many more Sean Last's are out there but afraid to get involved or don't know how too.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Destiny is far more intelligent than Vaush.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True.

[–]socksuckersocks_sucks 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fact that Destiny doesn't even bring any facts into a debate and instead opts to play video games throughout is enough to determine that his chief goal is essentially that of a multi-player video game: "pwning noobs". It's all about deploying various tricks that they have stored in a mental "box" in order to bait and confuse the opponent, and nothing to do with getting closer to objective truth. They simply deploy these tricks until the time runs out. If they can't "win", these tricks can be used to stall to the end such that it appears a tie.

Last has spent hours debating Destiny on numerous occasions, possibly even on the same topics. Destiny just needs to generate views, from which his channel is large enough to generate money. For us, the main "point" of doing this is to use debate channels and people with large audiences like Destiny to disseminate our righteous messages in spaces we normally cannot. It is much more important to engage in this than in conversational livestreams about Covid or whatever the likes of Evola said. The sheer difference in the amount of views says it all: debating provides much greater return for the amount of time or effort put into it.

Finally, people who are banned from YouTube like Martinez or Handsome Truth are able to still spread the message to YouTube in this roundabout way. Whereas most DR content goes in the other direction, exceedingly away from YouTube and other surface websites and into more secluded spaces in which we are preaching to the choir. Reddit was particularly successful in doing this, becoming one massive echo chamber in which mainstream ideology and narratives go unchallenged and where normies can go without ever encountering ideas that contradict their own. Someone can be a total Leftist who just happens to express a single contrary idea, such as "trans women aren't real women", and that's all it takes to be banned.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that there are certain debaters. Like Destiny. That turn the audience off. In fact that might be his real strategy. If I'm winning I'm winning and if I'm losing I make the debate boring and unwatchable. You can't have a productive debate if both opponents aren't somewhat willing to find common ground or even embrace the counter point. That's what made the blood-sports good. They had a lot of youthful impressionable people involved in the debate not just watching it. Today's debates simply feeling like entrenched tactical exchanges.

Personally I've always thought that the interview format is better for us. Preferable with an intelligent yet naive opponent who is trying to steel man our viewpoints. When people struggle to find something they disagree with that's when there's productive exchange. We use to have a lot of exchanges like this 3 or 4 years ago.

Finally, people who are banned from YouTube like Martinez or Handsome Truth are able to still spread the message to YouTube in this roundabout way.

True, and I'm not saying to totally abandon all debate channels but there are certain people that I just don't see a point engaging with.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They do this, but I disagree that this represents all or even most of what they do. It's not like there's no substance to the responses they give to some of our positions. I don't think it serves us well to deny the success they've had. You watch them against Sean Last or JF and they're stumped. But it seems to indicate a weakness on our end that our B level guys are looking "pretty bad" or worse against them.

Although interestingly, some people kind of speculate (like in the comments section of the first video I linked) that deep down, Destiny knows race realism is true. He's also, in a measured sort of way, drifted slowly to the right on a select number of issues. He's still a creep, but maybe Destiny actually has some sense.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To be honest I haven't watched a Destiny or Vaush debate in the last year or so. If they are coming around on any dissident issues I haven't seen it.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The sad truth is, everyone but our A level guys are losing debates to legitimate lefties like Destiny and Vaush...either on points or by KO. Best just to admit it and make

You only need to present a Race & IQ Chart to win any debate. It's the only argument that the Left has no rebuttal and will outlaw it in real life.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-school-science-project-that-connected-race-and-iq-is-pulled-after-complaints

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sean Last despite how much I like him and agree with him is not a strong debater. He's not compelling or entertaining to listen to. I completely disagree with your post.

Name me this 'loss' one of our guys had to Vaush?

Regarding Destiny I posted here the debate he had with Martinez and Martinez was fantastic. Very calm, knew his topic and would have impressed many in the audience left or right.

Also it's just a simple fact that without censorship we would be dominating the political internet or at least have a substantial presence. Alt-Right bloodsports shows were ridiculously popular -- often times being the number one live streams on the planet -- and the comment sections were nearly unanimous that our arguments were right.

Also I think the idea that the importance of these debates is 'winning' and that can be objectively measured is absurd. Most people come in to the debate and declare their side the winner no matter what happens. The point is the propagation of ideas to the curious or the undecided and if you do that you win.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

James Allsup and Striker lost to Vaush off the top of my head. Literally any search you do for Vaush and race realise/alt-right, Vaush wins on points or worse.

To be fair, Vaush and Destiny don't always debate our best guys and many of them are more 'alt-lite' than anything. But to say they don't come up with plausible responses to our positions is folly.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

James Allsup and Striker lost to Vaush off the top of my head. Literally any search you do for Vaush and race realise/alt-right, Vaush wins on points or worse.

According to who? By what objective metric? This is just silly. On 'points'? What are you even talking about?

But to say they don't come up with plausible responses to our positions is folly.

Never said they didn't.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd say they lost because if you simply follow 'point/counterpoint', Vaush and Destiny were the logical winners. They always had a response prepared that directly spoke to the matter at hand. They were actually prepared for what their opponents would say next. I say people lost 'on points' rather than 'KO', meaning a complete drubbing vs being edged out.

And granted, Vaush and Destiny are bullshitters, but it's best to realize that they made arguments that "work" (ie could potentially convince others) vs obvious bullshit and deception.

People on our side, if they want to shove this crap aside and say it doesn't matters, your entitled to your opinion. Me personally, I'm concerned by the extent to which our enemies have evolved their talking points and responses.

[–]DisgustResponse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Don't understand you guys who care about this crap. There's zero common ground with these scum.

[–]TrabWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm fine hearing out the other side and what they have to say. Granted many of the debates I've seen involving Destiny or Vaush to not actually result in any dismantling of third positionist policies though