Weekly Discussion Thread. 10/16/21-10/22/21.

submitted by send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist from self.debatealtright

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[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I read it from a book, I believe it was The Bow And The Club. If I recall correctly, the actual title of the essay was The Youth, The Beats, and Right-Wing Anarchists. I am pretty sure this specific essay is popular outside of the book though. You may be able to find it on Counter-Currents, since when people post Evola links, that's typically where they're from.

I went to reread the essay just now though and it's not the way I remember it. I think Evola wrote two separate essays on the Beats, so it's possible I've got the wrong one or that I was just generally mistaken. This essay looks at the Beats with the aim of discovering the meaning this type of worldview can have on a personal level, rather than examining the Beats as a movement and a symbol. The point I wanted to make earlier was that for Evola, politically the best way forward was a movement which is both a political force and a symbol. The Beats essay is good, but it does not make such an argument or even focus on offering a reference point like I thought it would.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The point I wanted to make earlier was that for Evola, politically the best way forward was a movement which is both a political force and a symbol.

So combining subcultures that represent an ideal with politics? Like Fascism with Futurism and NS with the Volkisch movement?

I've also long considered this an essential element and the alt right with fashwave, leading all online culture etc seemed to have the potential for this but nowadays it seems impossible for an organic/grassroots subculture to be mainstreamed.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So combining subcultures that represent an ideal with politics? Like Fascism with Futurism and NS with the Volkisch movement?

I think Futurism was more of an intellectual movement and Volkisch nationalism a mass movement. What I am thinking of is closer to having a group of people whose public image and style immediately brings to mind a sense of seriousness and transcendent values, similar to how seeing a monk immediately brings to mind ideas of monastic life and ascesis. I think my understanding of this idea actually comes from another one of Evola's essays, Orientations, which should definitely be on Counter-Currents.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah I see, you mean specifically an ascetic order as part of the movement. I would like to see this but I feel like it can only exist as part of a religious movement, which we don't have and which would have no mass appeal if we did anyway. I think that kind of thing doesn't have much potential today.

I think the furthest something along this line can take is simply communication between different nationalist individuals and cells/chapters to develop ideas. Maybe stuff like guys meeting to mountaineer together or other similar activities, but I can't really imagine groups of guys detaching from the world to live together communally and whatnot.

What kind of form do you think it could take today? The best I can imagine is a group that takes initiates from various nationalist organisations and requires them to pass certain tests. But what would be the ends to this? What 'esoteric' knowledge would be imparted on them? We have no religious/transcendent path for them to be dedicated to, it would just be akin to networking or being part of something that seems cool or something.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah I see, you mean specifically an ascetic order as part of the movement. I would like to see this but I feel like it can only exist as part of a religious movement, which we don't have and which would have no mass appeal if we did anyway. I think that kind of thing doesn't have much potential today.

I am not thinking of something exclusively religious, but an ascetic, anti-consumerist element would play an important role in setting such a movement apart from mass society. The new age hippies provide one possible example of mixing religious beliefs with a political lifestyle, although in their case both of those elements had a very different aim and function. Evola is also not too concerned with mass appeal. The aim of such a movement would be to build something akin to a vanguard and to keep vanguard values alive, basically. If that can be achieved, the mass appeal will come when the appropriate moment is reached. At such a moment, having a ready organisation and group of people with an established image to engage in political work is also useful.

I think the furthest something along this line can take is simply communication between different nationalist individuals and cells/chapters to develop ideas. Maybe stuff like guys meeting to mountaineer together or other similar activities, but I can't really imagine groups of guys detaching from the world to live together communally and whatnot.

That's not what I meant with the monk example, I don't think something like this could work either. My intention was to suggest that the image of a member of a political order of this type would bring to mind the same level of distinctiveness from normal life as a monk. The practical side would be very different from monastic life.

What kind of form do you think it could take today? The best I can imagine is a group that takes initiates from various nationalist organisations and requires them to pass certain tests. But what would be the ends to this? What 'esoteric' knowledge would be imparted on them? We have no religious/transcendent path for them to be dedicated to, it would just be akin to networking or being part of something that seems cool or something.

This is a very difficult question, because it depends on how responsive political activists and normies would be to something like this. I think as far as the spiritual element is concerned, Evola has already outlined several paths that could be pursued today. Some of them are more inaccessible, but others are straightforward, comparatively simple and intuitive. Regarding the other stuff, I think the most successful possible form of such an order would consist in a group oriented around spiritual, political, physical and intellectual development. How big such a group would be, or even if it is possible to establish such a group at all, would have to be established through active effort. The end product would be a hierarchical network of nonconformist communities.