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[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I never said anyone had to give away all their money ???

These relatively small donors have nothing to do with being funded by big finance or anything like that. The NSDAP had an infinitesimal amount of support from industrial capital and zero from finance capital.

There isn't anyone even remotely comparable to the wealth Ford, or any other major industrial or finance capitalist, that supported the NSDAP.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

These relatively small donors have nothing to do with being funded by big finance or anything like that.

So why did he take the money then?

And considering the state of Germany in 1920s, I think it's kinda strange to downplay this as being a small effort. Like being given a car for free, isn't something the average German was likely to receive.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

Are you just trolling or what? You're not making any sense

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

You were agreeing to someone who said Capitalism (in all its forms) was evil, not the fact Henry Ford just happened to be a bit richer than the people donating to Hitler. I was defending the former.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

No, you said there were rich Germans in Ford's place that were donating to the NSDAP. Which is ridiculous, the well off people in Germany who gave money to the NSDAP were nowhere near oligarch status, nor did they give donations big enough to fund even a sizable minority of the party. Larger donations provided practically none of the financial base of the NSDAP.

I didn't say anything about capitalism, I just pointed out your statement that the NSDAP had any support from big capital is absurd. They had none.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

No, you said there were rich Germans in Ford's place that were donating to the NSDAP. Which is ridiculous, the well off people in Germany who gave money to the NSDAP were nowhere near oligarch status,

That's very well subjective. Ford wasn't even the richest in America. That title would go more likely to Rockefeller.

Larger donations provided practically none of the financial base of the NSDAP.

Show citations. My sources at least mention Hitler came out of prison with better living conditions (courtesy of the help he got). Since Germany was in economic toil during this period, it seems odd to suggest every German at the time had similar standards?

I also never said the Nazis never made money at all. I merely pointed out there was still help before they rose to power.

I didn't say anything about capitalism, I just pointed out your statement that the NSDAP had any support from big capital is absurd. They had none.

Then we have to agree to disagree on what "big capital" means. Follow the thread, and I make it clear what my stance on Ford (or anyone wealthy enough to donate) is.

https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/8ha6/dissident_rightsympathetic_billionaires/vhjw

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

That's very well subjective. Ford wasn't even the richest in America. That title would go more likely to Rockefeller.

It's not subjective at all, Ford was an internationally renowned industrial capitalist who was objectively an oligarch of America.

Show citations. My sources at least mention Hitler came out of prison with better living conditions. Since Germany was in economic toil during this period, it seems odd to suggest every German at the time had similar standards?

German Big Business and the Rise of Hitler spells out quite clearly that no major industrialists or finance capitalists supported the NSDAP.

Then we have to agree to disagree on what "big capital" means. Follow the thread, and I make it clear what my stance on Ford (or anyone wealthy enough to donate) is.

Seems to be that way because you're somehow unable to comprehend that there's a difference between billionaires and people with a couple million.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

It's not subjective at all, Ford was an internationally renowned industrial capitalist who was objectively an oligarch of America.

Then I will say both groups were respectively wealthy, especially when you consider the German middle class had nearly disintegrated that decade, and inflation was higher in Germany than anywhere else in the world at the time.

Seems to be that way because you're somehow unable to comprehend that there's a difference between billionaires and people with a couple million.

Assuming these sources contain little bias, my research has shown that the Nazi Party was indeed bankrupt at one point, but where still offered millions from private companies like Krupp and I.G Farben.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/how-big-business-bailed-out-nazis

According to The Arms of Krupp, the Nazi Party was essentially bankrupt in late 1932. Joseph Goebbels, who would later become the Minister of Propaganda, complained, “[w]e are all very discouraged, particularly in the face of the present danger that the entire party may collapse….The financial situation of the Berlin organization is hopeless. Nothing but debts and obligations.”


Regardless of the party’s financial problems, Hitler was named Chancellor in late January 1933. He called for elections in early March. With less than two weeks left before the vote, Herman Goering sent telegrams to Germany’s 25 leading industrialists, inviting them to a secret meeting in Berlin on February 20, 1933. Attending the gathering were four I.G. Farben directors and Krupp chief Gustav Krupp. Hitler addressed the group, saying “private enterprise cannot be maintained in a democracy.” He also told the men that he would eliminate trade unions and communists. Hitler asked for their financial support and to back his vision for Germany.


Within context and who I was originally arguing with, I believe my point still stands. You don't need to be as rich as Henry Ford to still make the same (or arguably) a bigger impact in terms of donations.

Edit: Sources I found for I.G Farben said they had an estimated wealth of 1.4 Billion Reichsmark in 1929.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=xxl85t-mNbYC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=i.g.+farben+1.4+billion+Reichsmark&source=bl&ots=ZjoQcYSxKm&sig=ACfU3U1U_oEPP52iiGlsPmPNUZ6AR5EyhA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhst2WqtHzAhXxq3IEHQfzDhcQ6AF6BAgYEAM#v=onepage&q=i.g.%20farben%201.4%20billion%20Reichsmark&f=false

Another source said that Krupp also pledged 100,000,000 Reichsmarks to Hitler.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Ql_FeGlS2oIC&pg=PP269&lpg=PP269&dq=krupp+100,000,000+Reichsmarks&source=bl&ots=jxyabYp77_&sig=ACfU3U02FUK9LdH4QH3b_HjPURmIfrM5hg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjmkqK-rNHzAhVkdc0KHWy5DlIQ6AF6BAgCEAM#v=onepage&q=krupp%20100%2C000%2C000%20Reichsmarks&f=false

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Neither IG Farben nor Krupp funded them to get them into power.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

Neither IG Farben nor Krupp funded them to get them into power.

Keyword "into power". You formerly said "no major industrialists or finance capitalists supported the NSDAP".