A study from the New England Journal of Medicine shows that 8/10 pregnant women suffer miscarriages from the vaccine

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

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[–]ayotollahsinIran 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (31 children)

Ok. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-pregnancy-idUSL1N2OX1WL

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

The reuters article does good gaslighting.

However, this study is focusing specifically on how the Covid vaccine impacts pregnancy, including by trimester. So to more precisely calculate the miscarriage rate, we have to remember that miscarriages, by definition, occur before the 20-week gestation mark. This means that all 700 women who received the vaccine in the third trimester must be excluded from the calculation because they were already past being able to have a technical miscarriage. So really, 104 out of 127 women experienced a miscarriage. This means the miscarriage rate of women who received the vaccine in the first or second trimester is actually 81.9%, or 8 out of 10 women – way, way above the national average.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

wait they have the wrong miscarriage definition, it's if you lose the baby at any point during the 9 months

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

miscarriage definition

Miscarriage is when a baby dies in the womb before 20 weeks of pregnancy. Some women have a miscarriage before they know they're pregnant.

https://www.marchofdimes.org/complications/miscarriage.aspx#:~:text=Miscarriage%20is%20when%20a%20baby,chromosomes%20in%20genes%20cause%20most.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

is it called something else if the baby dies after 20 weeks, like late term baby death or something

sounds like an evil distinction

[–]chadwickofwv 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Yes, after 20 weeks it is classified as stillbirth.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I hope they continue this study. It only looks like 80% had a miscarriage because it doesn't count women who were still pregnant. If they just halt the study that's a sign of a coverup.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

You really ought to read the study because you're just spouting numbers without any sense of how they were derived.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8117969/

From table 3

Characteristic Pfizer–BioNTech Vaccine Moderna Vaccine Total
First trimester: <14 wk 615 (28.8) 517 (28.4) 1132 (28.6)
Second trimester: ≥14 and <28 wk 932 (43.6) 782 (42.9) 1714 (43.3)
Third trimester: ≥28 wk 533 (25.0) 486 (26.7) 1019 (25.7)

So there's at least 1132 pregnant women that can have a spontaneous abortion. This doesn't include second trimester values but if it were to include we can expect this value to approach about 2000 women that are eligible to have a spontaneous abortion. So of this approximately 2000 woman sample, we have data on 127 of them and 104 had spontaneous abortions. While there certainly could be sampling error that led to such a high rate in this 127 woman sample, there is no doubt that it doesn't look good considering that it's likely that some of them were also beyond the 20 week mark when they were vaccinated, so the spontaneous abortion rate is likely even higher for this sample.

This study was published in April, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was another publication from this cohort coming out by the end of the year or early next year as they should have data on the rest of the women and have already done an analysis.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

tldr but bottom line is gotta count all of them or it's cherry pickin

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No it literally isn't. 700 of the women weren't vaccinated before the 20 week cut-off. You're being ignorant.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the distinction has to do with the statistical viability of the baby. Afaik, it's nearly impossible for a 20 week old to survive outside the womb.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199311253292201

RESULTS

Fifty-six infants (39 percent) survived for six months. Survival improved with increasing gestational age; none of 29 infants born at 22 weeks' gestation survived, as compared with 6 of 40 (15 percent) born at 23 weeks, 19 of 34 (56 percent) born at 24 weeks, and 31 of 39 (79 percent) born at 25 weeks.

[–]shilldetector 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

You are throwing out a strawman. The issue is that the study didnt show 80% of pregnant women who had the vaccine had a miscarriage, or any thing close to that. Most of the women in the study were still pregnant when it concluded, so those that were no longer pregnant were generally the ones who had a miscarriage, and it was nowhere near 80% of the total women in the study. Your post is total bullshit. Arguing over the exact definition of miscarriage has zero effect on your post being bullshit.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

This is wrong.

There was 700 live births out of that group of 827

A total of 96 of 104 spontaneous abortions (92.3%) occurred before 13 weeks of gestation (Table 4), and 700 of 712 pregnancies that resulted in a live birth (98.3%) were among persons who received their first eligible vaccine dose in the third trimester.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8117969/

Of the remaining 127, who also didn't receive the vaccine in the third trimester, 104 of them had miscarriages.

Please read the actual study before making comments that are entirely baseless and factually incorrect.

[–]shilldetector 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I stand corrected, but the post is still a lie. 127 out of 827 births is 15%, not 80%. Which means the percentage of vaccinated women that had a miscarriage is in line with the average percentage that have a miscarriage in general, which is what several other studies have shown.

There may be reasons to be hesitant in getting the vaccine if you are pregnant, but I'd be more concerned about long term developmental issues than miscarriage, especially since a covid infection itself is has a proven link to increased miscarriage.

So this was just another bullshit covid distraction post, of the kind we see completely filling up the front page of saidit to the exclusion of most everything else, by design.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The post is still a lie. 127 out of 827 births is 15%, not 80%.

No it isn't.

Read the bolded please.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8117969/

A total of 96 of 104 spontaneous abortions (92.3%) occurred before 13 weeks of gestation (Table 4), and 700 of 712 pregnancies that resulted in a live birth (98.3%) were among persons who received their first eligible vaccine dose in the third trimester.

If a woman is in their third trimester then they're already beyond the point of being able to have a spontaneous abortion as those only happen before 20 weeks of pregnancy. So 700 of the 827 were ineligible to have a spontaneous abortion. The spontaneous abortion rate of this sample is 82%. I'm not sure how to explain this any simpler.

There may be reasons to be hesitant in getting the vaccine if you are pregnant, but I'd be more concerned about long term developmental issues than miscarriage, especially since a covid infection itself is has a proven link to increased miscarriage.

I agree.

So this was just another bullshit covid distraction post, of the kind we see completely filling up the front page of saidit to the exclusion of most everything else, by design.

No it isn't. 700 of the 827 women were not capable of having a spontaneous abortion because they were vaccinated in their third trimester.

[–]shilldetector 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No it isn't. 700 of the 827 women were not capable of having a spontaneous abortion because they were vaccinated in their third trimester.

So what is even the fucking point of bringing up this study? If the vast majority received the vaccine before they were capable of having a miscarriage then how is this study being used to prove that the vaccine causes miscarriages?

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Because 104 of the 127 (82%) non-third trimester vaccinations ended up with spontaneous abortions. That's concerning, both ethically and statistically.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

No. Table 4. It's the definition they use in the paper.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8117969/table/t4/

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

well besides how many had miscarriages, how many had a baby die, that's what I care about more than the rigid term miscarriage.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Okay.

I don't thinking caring about what you said and caring about the possibility that 80% or more of pregnant that were vaccinated women before their third trimester had miscarriages are mutually exclusive things to care about.

Not sure why you're arguing about semantics.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

actually you and those talking about this are arguing about the semantics

but it is true miscarriages have a weird definition. that needs to be changed to anytime a woman loses a pregnancy

So what does this show. Besides the definition of a word. Do women that are pregnant and get the vaccine mostly lose the baby in the first trimester? Then the baby is safe if it made it that long? I guess that makes sense. A baby is weaker and it is harder for them to survive the younger it is in the womb. More than 80% do survive though? Ok what is the true number that survive?

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Supposedly it's closer to 10% that are miscarried.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210615010704/https://www.skirsch.com/covid/Vaccine_safety_in_preg_NEJM_May_28_2021.pdf

Additionally, the authors indicate that the rate of SAs in the published literature is between 10% and 26%.3-5 However, the upper cited rate includes clinically-unrecognized pregnancies,3 which does not reflect the clinicallyrecognized pregnancies of this cohort and should be removed.

\3. Dugas C, Slane VH. Miscarriage. StatPearls [Internet] 2020.

\4. Obstetricians ACo, Gynecologists. ACOG practice bulletin no. 200: Early pregnancy loss. Obstetrics and gynecology 2018;132:e197-e207.

\5. Medicine PCotASfR. Evaluation and treatment of recurrent pregnancy loss: a committee opinion. Fertility and sterility 2012;98:1103-11.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I guess that's about the same amount that normally don't make it to term

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Maybe I wrote that out poorly, but a miscarriage rate of 80% is much greater than a 10% miscarriage rate.