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[–]NeoRail 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Most people don't care about what Evola, Nietzsche or Marx believed, about the metaphysical idealism-dualism-physicalism debate and the 'hard problem of consciousness', or most of anything else Keith mentions.

"Most people" don't care about politics either and from among those who do, "most people" make zero impact. Politics is not a question of numbers, especially not of numbers at the expense of everything else. All three of the thinkers you mentioned make this very clear for their readers, in different ways.

To win on the macro-level there needs to be a simplification of the message. Avoid speculation. Avoid unsourced claims whenever possible. Engage more with science and less with philosophy.

All of these things have their place in political practice, but that's just half the picture. To simplify a message, first you need to have one. Similarly, philosophy is invaluable if it is done well. Something important that a lot of people miss these days is that science itself is based on and is a form of philosophy. Without understanding the implications of that, you will always be at a disadvantage when trying to use science, because you would be failing to understand the tool that you are trying to use. When people discuss the nature of consciousness, knowledge, epistemology etc. it isn't just something they do for the sake of it, it is done because these things are important and determine the entire content and direction behind the ideas humans rely on to make sense of the world.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

To simplify a message, first you need to have one. Similarly, philosophy is invaluable if it is done well.

Yep. The people who think the alt/dissident right today is 'too big brained' are hilarious. I'd love to see these guys tackling Hegel and Gentile; or Heidegger and Schmitt etc.

The issue is actually the exact opposite, revolutionary nationalists back then actually read the newspapers, attended the speeches, read Mein Kampf and the other 30~ books on the NS reading list etc. The average member of a shirt movement in the 20s and 30s was well educated on politics and his own movement's struggle. The average alt/dissident righter today is just a conservatard that likes to say nigger, the reason we are unable to get anything done is because our ranks are either too stupid or too intellectually lazy to educate themselves and actually try to get anything done.

The /r/BritishNationalism sub got banned but they exemplified this issue. They were all race realist, pro-white, most were jew aware to some extent. But all of them are basically just Churchill worshipping antifa neocon retards. They have successfully adopted the 'simplified' messaging of the alt right IE the form, with none of the substance.

By the way, Stennes from reddit has translated Rudolf Jung's National Socialism book and is giving it away for free if you're interested.

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think that stupidity wouldn't be an issue if there was an organisation with an intelligent strategy directing the efforts of all political forces, but especially today anti-system politics are the most individualist, decentralised and disorganised they have ever been. Consequently any increase in numbers or resources only translates into slightly louder whining.

Thank you for mentioning the translation, I may take a look at it later. It's still hard to believe that most of the National Socialist material is not already translated.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yep, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation too. This hypothetical organisation can only come to exist once it has some funding, which is going to require many thousands of people to straighten up.

Thank you for mentioning the translation, I may take a look at it later. It's still hard to believe that most of the National Socialist material is not already translated.

Worse yet a lot of it is lost to history too

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Worse yet a lot of it is lost to history too

Do you have anything particular in mind?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nothing in particular, just random things you see referenced. Half of the reading list from here doesn't exist in English for example, I think a lot of it is lost even in German too.

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but especially today anti-system politics are the most individualist, decentralised and disorganised they have ever been.

That is an interesting point. The internet has increased levels of dissent from the current system and its ideology but the dissent is completely unorganized. Pre Internet if you wanted to engage with likeminded others you would have to form some type of group or organization to do so. An organized structure also results in superior leaders rising to the top.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But you're just a midwit though. Caspar said it so it must be true. /S

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's worse than that, I'm two halfwits inside a big coat

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The simplified message ends up just being shitposting and memeing which far out weighs the intellectual commentary on the Right. If anything it is the former holding us back. It is true the masses are not going to be interested in more complex discussions but that doesn't mean we should reject such things. Fostering a dissident academic and intellectual culture is important to cultivate or you'll never be able to challenge the ruling ideology and its institutions.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Something important that a lot of people miss these days is that science itself is based on and is a form of philosophy."

Hard truth for many to accept, right here.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    However, I'm confident that humans will never make any major breakthrough in the remaining fields of philosophy and so they will remain philosophical indefinitely.

    You can't know that, you just decided that on your own. No wonder you think philosophy is a waste of time.

    Spending the last few decades we have pondering how to solve these problems just so that our enemies would benefit from the solutions if we hypothetically did is simply a foolish waste of time.

    Different people work on different things. It's not like every person with right wing inclinations would suddenly become a philosophy expert overnight and spend his time working on the problem of consciousness. Some people will work on the intellectual aspect of things, others would work on organisation etc. Moreover, you are overlooking something - the system is already benefitting from the lack of solutions. Nihilistic postmodernism is the ideology of 21st century capitalism. The whole point is that "nothing matters, you're just a clump of cells on a rock in space, consume the product and don't believe in anything". I myself am no believer in the ability of "pure philosophy" on its own to "solve" the crisis of nihilism, but every serious, intelligent person needs at least some form of philosophical approach to life. It is a basic necessity for intellectual life.

    I think, for example, that I have a pretty ingenious argument for refuting solipsism. I don't bother bringing it into the DR because there is too much of this as it is, all of which only occurs because we've been incapable of progress for decades. By this I mean that the only reason that we are scouring old books by Gentile et al. and fighting over interpretations of them, is precisely because we have not found a way into the halls of power. Literally all of this discussion would cease if we were in power tomorrow. We'd be far too busy deporting nuisances, imprisoning the old regime. We would simply forget about these books for a very long time.

    This is a forum for political discussion, not for discussion of philosophy. Philosophy is relevant only insofar as it ties into politics, but a very broad range of works can fall into this category. I also think that your position on philosophy here shows you lack principles. A person with political agency should be able to define himself not only in negative terms, against what he opposes, but also in positive terms of what he wants to create and establish.

    It is simply the result of hoping that within an old book an easy path is found to surpass an increasingly insurpassable wall.

    It is not about finding an easy path, it is about finding a path that works. The thing is that every aspect of political theory and practice have already been examined by extremely intelligent men over the past century. Trying to reinvent the wheel is not only needless, but also futile, because the people engaging with these problems today are simply far less intelligent and learned than the previous generation. The gap in the quality of analysis and strategy is almost unbelievable.

    We have no need for remaining an intellectual elite because elites that do not convince masses can never hold power.

    Really? What about the current one?

    It is simply impossible to convince the masses by being 'too big brained' such that they simply switch off.

    The "big brained" ideas are not for the masses, they are there to convince thinkers and intelligent people, who convince driven and sensible people, who convince the masses. This is how it has always worked.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    My response ignores nothing lol? The conditions of interwar Germany have literally nothing to do with this topic. Your comments are the ones missing stuff, namely that the people who are part of the nationalist/racialist 'movement' today just aren't even remotely serious. This is what it comes down to, there is plenty of simplified propaganda which is how most people got here. The issue is that the vast majority of people take step 1 and just sit there forever, they don't look to organise, nor are they educating themselves on anything politically. They aren't serious about the struggle, they just like shitposting.