Right-Winger VINCENT JAMES on Robert E Lee Statue, American Involvement in Both World Wars

submitted by Richard_Parker from self.debatealtright

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[–]Richard_Parker[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Indeed. Whatever misgivings people have about the Third Reich, Bismarck's 2nd Empire was pretty much the ideal society.

[–]TheJamesRocket 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

The 2nd Reich was trash. They allowed Jews to occupy many positions of power, which came back to bite them later in the war. German Jews conspired with their brethren in Britain and America to change the course of the war. The deal was that if Britain could carve off Palestine from the Ottoman empire, and if America would enter the war, then the German Jews would foment revolution inside the Reich. That is exactly what ended up happening, and it lead to the legend of Germany being stabbed in the back.

[–]Richard_Parker[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

No.

[–]TheJamesRocket 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yes. 3rd Reich > 2nd Reich.

At any rate, Hitler was a far better leader than the weak Kaiser.

[–]Richard_Parker[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh sure he was.. as quantified by the end result of things.Declaring war on the United States just as the Wehrmacht stalls In a once Ina century Russian Winter brilliant. Distinction between national socialism ad ideology as opposed to practice from having him as a leader.

[–]TheJamesRocket 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The United States had already been waging an undeclared war against Germany in the Atlantic. The U.S. navy was escourting British supply ships through an active war zone, and were patrolling and intercepting German U-boats. Hitler figured that since the U.S. was now at war with Japan, it would be safe for him to declare war on the U.S. His basic mistake was overestimating the Japanese and underestimating the Americans.

[–]Richard_Parker[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am aware of this.Early in the civil war, there was sabre rattling from Britain concerning the detainment of British emissaries to the Confederacy. Lincoln released them, while still g to his cabinet "One War at a Time."

Also, do not mistake my real and correct aversion to Hitler as an endorsement of Allied policies or actions.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The U.S. navy was escourting British supply ships through an active war zone, and were patrolling and intercepting German U-boats

And after declaring formal war, the US sent 2 million and tens of thousands of bombers to attack Germany openly.

[–]TheJamesRocket 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wasn't justifying Hitlers decision to declare war, I was simply providing the context in which he made that decision. Its not as if he just woke up one morning and decided to declare war on the U.S., just for the hell of it. There was already lots of tension between Germany and the U.S., and Pearl Harbor gave Hitler the justification he needed to turn it into open war. In retrospect, of course, we can see that this wasn't such a good decision.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Bismarck's 2nd Empire was pretty much the ideal society.

According to the inter-war Ernst Junger, the German Empire was a typical bourgeois society with a thin coat of traditional paint. Junger found that this bourgeois character was exemplified, for instance, in how the imperial regime demanded that millions of Germans shed their blood on the front and starve for the sake of victory, yet at the same time lacked the courage to stand its ground against socialist revolutionaries at home, immediately capitulating without a fight and wasting all the sacrifices the people had made.

[–]Richard_Parker[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Would we better off is the US kept out WW1 and Wilhelmine Germany won WWI?

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is a very different matter, but the answer to that question is probably yes.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

lacked the courage to stand its ground against socialist revolutionaries at home, immediately capitulating without a fight

The army mutinied and refused to fight the war any longer. Sailors mutinied in Kiel and soldiers on the Western front formed soldiers councils and started to rule themselves.

Germany did not lose WW1 because of socialists stabbing them in the back. It lost because the entry of the US decisively tilted the balance against Germany. By that point further fighting was pointless. Austria and Bulgaria had also surrendered.

After the imperial government fell, the Social democrats recruited the Friekorps and slaughtered the communists.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are correct about the sailors, but you are wrong about the army.

You are also correct on why Germany lost the world war, but that is besides the point.