An honest question to the pro-vax people on this sub, why do you trust the state on the vaccine issue?

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Not really.

Convalescent plasma therapy is highly effective and could be readily administered in people that you know are infected and having a severe reaction. It's a very cost-effective way to treat people that need it, and by knowing who is infected and has antibodies, you create a larger supply of therapeutics. It literally builds on itself.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3939/rr-5

I think this would be far more beneficial and work organically within the parameters of our immune system instead of the Frankenstein project that's currently being imposed on society.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

that still makes it seem like getting it on purpose would be foolish

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why do you think that?

Back when stricter lockdowns were in place, cohorts of low risk people could have been infected to generate highly effective therapeutics for the vulnerable. Doing it in a controlled manner with regular monitoring and available support would have ensured the safety of the process. This would have provided a much more useful data set than the mess we have now.

Scientists are already talking about covid becoming endemic like the seasonal flu and vaccinated people are still being infected and transmitting the virus. The mRNA therapies are not neutralizing the spread of the virus, i.e. they haven't properly trained a persons immune system to neutralize and prevent the replication of the virus. The mRNA vaccines have between 4000-5000 of the total covid genome, which is 30,000 bases. So someone who has become infected naturally will have a more robust and comprehensive immune profile of the virus than someone who was given the designer mRNA one. This is just the math of the situation.

I think it makes more sense to work within the confines of our immune system than gaslighting the public into taking unproven experimental mRNA therapies. I can understand being more cautious with vulnerable groups, but that simply isn't the case for over 95% of the population.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

just makes no sense, how do you know who is low risk especially at the start and how does that gain highly effective therapeutics?

This is a highly contagious bioweapon that for whatever reason is asymptomatic in most but deadly or debilitating to some. It was probably designed to be asymptomatic in many to help it spread. Yeah it will be endemic and we'll need to live with it. Even if it seems to be asymtpmatic watch it cause cancer years down the line. A lot of people have herpes without knowing it and it causes cancer and schitzophrenia. I agree the vaccines don't work but still back to the point, just getting it on purpose is foolish, why roll the dice, I want to avoid it and live normally as long as possible so I know the lockdowns are unpopular but I will socially distance myself from people, like just getting close to my wife.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

just makes no sense, how do you know who is low risk especially at the start and how does that gain highly effective therapeutics?

It became apparent fairly early that the elderly and obese/co-morbid were at the highest risk. This is basically the default for risk groups for most diseases, i.e. already sick, frail, immuno-compromised, etc. It's axiomatic.

how does that gain highly effective therapeutics?

Convalescent plasma is a highly effective therapeutic. Convalescent plasma is from previously infected people that have recovered. It has a plethora of antibodies in it.

I take it you didn't actually read the link I put up above. Here it is again.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3939/rr-5

It's a critique of a paper that came to the conclusion that convalescent plasma therapy was ineffective. The comment in the link is pointing out a fault in the original paper, namely that for what amounts to antibody therapy to be effective, it must be administered as early as possible when someone is infected. This makes sense since a virus multiplies in the body and if you give a therapeutic that destroys the pathogen after it has already caused a bunch of damage then of course it will seem that it's ineffective. The original paper basically administered the plasma too late for it to be effective, i.e. they did optimally utilize it.

Given that SARS-COV-2 is forecasted to become endemic, this is why I think purposely infecting low risk people on a voluntary basis is a smart thing to do. Upon being infected they will also produce a diverse and comprehensive antibody profile and then their plasma can be used as a therapeutic for others should they need it. Our immune system already produces therapeutics and the whole billions (trillions now?) spent on ineffective mRNA "vaccines" was entirely pointless and a waste of resources.

When you can, it's best to work with nature, not against it. Our governments have chosen to work against nature in a way that will inevitably fail. It's already established that the mRNA "vaccines" are leaky and don't train the immune system to neutralize the virus. A single infection of a virus results in between 109 to 1011 new virions. The mutation rate of SARS-COV-2 may be anywhere between every few thousand bases to a few million.

Original SARS

The mutation rate in the SARS-CoV genome was estimated to be 0.80 – 2.38 × 103 nucleotide substitution per site per year which is in the same order of magnitude as other RNA viruses. The non-synonymous and synonymous substitution rates were estimated to be 1.16 – 3.30 × 103 and 1.67 – 4.67 × 103 per site per year, respectively.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.19.444774v1.full.pdf

We estimate a genomic mutation rate of 3.7x106 nt-1 cycle-1 28 for a lineage of SARS-CoV-2 with the originally described spike protein (CoV-2-D) and of 2.9x106 nt-1 cycle-1 30 for a lineage carrying the D614G mutation that has spread worldwide (CoV-2-G).

The SARS-COV-2 genome is 30,000 bp. If we take the lowest rate of mutation and the lowest number of virions produced from an infection, then during a single infection approximately 109 virions produced, times 30,000 bases per virion, gives a total of 30,000,000,000,000 bases during a single infection. Divided by the mutation rate of 2.9x106, gives 10.34 million mutated virions produced in a single infection. If the mutation rate is towards the lower end and every few thousand bases, then a single virion replication event will produce a new virion with low tens number of new mutations. I don't know the number of cycles of infection that a single virion will undergo in a single infection but if it's more than one, which I think is likely, then you can see how quickly mutations can become cumulative. As far as evolution pressure and chance go, a viral infection is evolution with a warp drive. This is no different than the problem with antibiotic resistance. It's a numbers game that we cannot statistically stay ahead of.

Anyway, unless you're living like Ted, it's very likely that you'll be able to avoid an endemic virus. This virus originally had a quite a low lethality overall and what we're doing is likely to make things worse. Time will tell, let's hope I'm wrong.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

not just elderly and obese but sometimes healthy young people get long haul, it's about 30% which seems to high a risk to get it on purpose

Looking back giving kids chicken pox on purpose was a bad idea cuz that causes shingles later in life.

Very likely, not good words, it needs to be 100% safe for me to consider it. The vaccines are dangerous, getting covid on purpose is dangerous, both are not valid options at this time.