We are losing badly

submitted by peaceful✞ from self.debatealtright

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[–]peaceful✞[S] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Yes, the point is none of you know it. That's why all we usually hear is optimism from the alt right: we're always "winning" and "about to win." Plus I wanted to prove that none of you are having successes. The bigger point is to encourage you to do something about the white problem.

[–]Ponderer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

we're always "winning" and "about to win."

Show me any post on this sub that has ever said this.

I can't find any made in the past week. Or in the past month. I can find exactly one in the past year, and it was made 11 months ago. I challenge you to find any others.

Go ahead, prove your point to me. I dare you.

The bigger point is to encourage you to do something about the white problem.

I'm going to be honest with you. Your mind works differently than other people's.

I don't know what's different about your mind, but you are not having the effect you intend to have, and you can't seem to realize it, even though many people have told you otherwise.

Look at the top-rated responses to your post. Do those seem like "encouraged" people? No, they are all calling you a demoralization shill.

Maybe you think that you are in the right, and everyone else is in the wrong. But that's like saying "I'm great at communicating, everyone else is just bad at listening." At some point, you have to recognize that your attempts aren't just falling flat, they are backfiring and being rejected aggressively.

I'm not sure if you know this, but when the average person goes to the gym, they often listen to motivational tracks to pump them up. These include affirmations like "You have the power!" "Keep it up!" "Every day is another victory!" "Don't give up!" "Getting stronger every day!" "Have a positive attitude!" Stuff like that. That's what the average person sees as encouraging.

If you go to the gym, do you put on a track that says "You're failing badly," "Every day you grow weaker and weaker," "You look in the mirror and see no progress," "Nothing you've done has succeeded," "Be pessimistic," "Everything you try meets failure"?

People are calling you a shill because you can't seem to understand that.

[–]peaceful✞[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Do you or do you not think the conditions of western countries are pessimistic? Why should discussing those conditions be problematic to you?

Look at the top-rated responses to your post. Do those seem like "encouraged" people? No, they are all calling you a demoralization shill.

I don't mind being attacked for being right. "Shill" is uncalled for since I obviously have with good intentions. Reality is a blackpill, so how are you going to fix it without admitting it? If there were hope I would admit it, and I've said there can be hope if we create it, so how is that shilling? What if there is no hope for precisely the reasons I've outlined: sedentary activism of the altright? Saying so would merely be an attempt to correct the course.

Show me any post on this sub that has ever said this.

I was speaking about the altright in general over the past 20 years, I've seen countless posts on forums where people say we're winning. We were about to win for sure when Golden Dawn won. We were winning when Trump was running for office. We're currently "doing great" because a pitiful 10% of whites agreed with the altright in a recent poll. Etc.

I am looking at white genocide and how to solve it realistically and I don't see things improving.

If you go to the gym, do you put on a track that says...

Sometimes people listen to sad music to make themselves feel better.

People with depression feel better after listening to sad music, research suggests https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/4/18528349/depression-music-sad-emotion-psychology-health

[–]Ponderer 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"Shill" is uncalled for since I obviously have with good intentions.

You don't "obviously" have good intentions if most people believe you have bad intentions behind these posts. What's "obvious" about it if everyone is calling you out?

"I'm really great at communicating my point of view, it's just that everyone else sucks at understanding me!"

At what point will you understand: if no one else gets your message, then the way you are communicating is the problem?

I've said there can be hope if we create it, so how is that shilling?

Where did you say this, just now?

What if there is no hope for precisely the reasons I've outlined: sedentary activism of the altright?

You know what would be cool? If you were making posts saying "Here is specifically what we're doing wrong now, here is specifically what we could be doing better."

You know, instead of "We are losing badly, we should be pessimistic, we should be blackpilled, we've been losing ground for decades, I don't see things improving, oh woe is me" with zero solutions like you've been doing.

I've seen countless posts on forums where people say we're winning.

Oh yeah?

Point out a post on this sub that says this. Not a comment, a post, and one other than the one I mentioned.

Can you find even one from this week? This month? This year?

I'll give you a hint: you can't, because it's all demoralizing blackpill shit like what you've been posting.

Sometimes people listen to sad music to make themselves feel better.

This is pure unadulterated desperation.

You know that gym example is ridiculous, and yet it's exactly what you're doing.

This study doesn't even prove your point. It goes directly against you because the sad people felt more "relaxed" and "calm" after listening to the sad music, not energized or interested in changing things.

You say you're here to blackpill and make people pessimistic in one moment, and now you say you're here to make people "feel better". BS.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

To be fair, guy mentioned utilizing media as a way to reach out. He might be from a different age demographic where TV reaches people, since you would technically have to convince those people as well if you were interested in having a stronger interest towards your cause. He also made several points about white people pushing back against racism or what is publicly perceived as racism, and he's not wrong. That's not exactly blackpilled, that's understanding the psychology of what people will do to avoid potential discomfort and disruption of their lifestyle. People do absolutely retarded shit to avoid social stigma and all of the repercussions that come along with it, even if a point made makes 120% sense. They will go out of their way to rationalize bad ideas for the same reasons, to try to convince themselves that at least parts of something are good to make themselves feel better about it, and then go on to distract with something else.

He's banned now, so it doesn't matter much for the next 2 weeks anyway.

[–]Ponderer 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

He also made several points about white people pushing back against racism or what is publicly perceived as racism, and he's not wrong.

Maybe, but he wasn't really formulating that as a logical statement of fact, as some kind of revelation, or as part of a rational argument. It was more just presented as something to be "pessimistic" or depressed about.

That's not exactly blackpilled, that's understanding the psychology of what people will do to avoid potential discomfort and disruption of their lifestyle.

But he explicitly states in his last post "Reality is a blackpill"

He has also made statements like "Yes, that's why there's no foreseeable hope, whites are too stupid to save their race." and things like that very frequently. He often says that there is nothing that can be done, or that all activism is useless. Only when pushed to the limit will he give any solutions, and even then it's utterly non-specific non-answers like "work hard", "put up flyers", or "use television".

I would give this guy the benefit of the doubt if he titled this post "We are losing badly, but here's how we can turn things around" and actually offered solutions. Or even if he came out and admitted he was blackpilled and gave well-sourced reasons why. But instead he plays this weird game of openly demoralizing, and then jumping back and saying "oh, actually I'm trying to encourage you."

At the very least it feels like he's misrepresenting his positions.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

There's kind of a lot going on in the world to be depressed and pessimistic about, so it's understandable for folks to express that even outside of the contexts within your sub. If his posts seem that suspicious or wishy washy, I guess that makes sense to question the integrity of them. He could just legitimately be god awful at explaining his points though. No clue.