How did the Native Indians compare to the Africans, when Europeans first met them?

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

Anytime the topic of North American Colonies is brought up, there is massive screeching from the Left about those "poor Indians" and how they "lost their land".

Ignoring for a minute that these same idiots also support mass third world immigration that's also on their land, where exactly did this perception come from that Native Indians were suppose to be just like Europeans, instead of say, being complete savages and primitive folk just like what Europeans saw when they arrived in Africa?

Even though I oppose diversity and would have preferred we left the Native Indians to live in their own camps, it's impossible to not make comparison with their civilizations and ours, especially as they demand we tear down statues and rename universities in their honor. Like this story that just came out of Canada.

https://www.ryerson.ca/news-events/news/2021/08/university-accepts-standing-strong-recommendations-including-renaming-the-university/

But correct me if wrong, but I've never seen anything about the Amerindians that put them on equal footing with Whites. For starters, I'm unaware of any advanced weapons that was actually produced by Indians. It was either bow and arrows, or clubs and axes they used to repel the Settlers.

Native infrastructure has never been quite impressive. Although I'll give them credit for building pyramid like temples, ironically, they served as purpose for sacrificing prisoners of wars by ripping their hearts out. Up farther north, they built longhouses and igloos, which might be cool to look at, but in principle, they're just more advance forms of mudhuts and other simpler dwelling.

Perhaps their only greatest achievement that might have put them ahead of Black Africans, is astronomy and perhaps even farming that can be found in some tribes living in South America.

But otherwise, I think it should be very obvious that Natives who got conquered by Europeans benefitted more from the massive tech upgrade and free gibs for being around White people. As opposed to vice versa, where White people being colonized Native Indians would have send their societies back to the stone age, or the late antiquity period.

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[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Out of curiosity, even though the Meso/South Americans were able to develop agriculture and technology, how come it's the most Amerindian countries that are still lagging behind?

    Both Bolivia & Peru don't appear to be any better off than their neighbors like Brazil or Argentina (countries that received more White admixture over time).

    And what about IQ studies as well? Genetically, they're suppose to be related to the Asians who crossed the bering strait, but they seem to do only do as well as 83 ~ 94 points. The latter being more mixed race samples.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8043111_Ethnic_and_racial_differences_on_the_Standard_Progressive_Matrices_in_Mexico

    [–]YJaewedwqewqClerical Fascist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    The Native Americans were better and more advanced than Africans in many ways, but they were still very savage and brutal. Unlike Africans they did have more advanced ideas of things like settlement building as you mention, with rather impressive feats of architecture (compared to their primitiveness, at least) especially down South with such feats as Tenochtitlan.

    Despite their somewhat more advanced technological nature, they were still savage and brutal primitives that lacked the materials and intelligence to form long-lasting, prosperous societies, and their inhumanities and brutality were almost indescribable.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Can you describe what materials they were missing?

    In comparison to Europe or even Asia, the Americas was just as resource rich. Brazil is home to the second largest iron deposits, or responsible for 17.2% of the world's entire production.

    The ammunition needed to make guns and gunpowder was also spread throughout the continent.

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    The ammunition needed to make guns and gunpowder was also spread throughout the continent.

    They don't understand chemistry or engineering, call it science. It's very difficult to build advanced weapons if you don't even know what science is.

    [–]YJaewedwqewqClerical Fascist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, it wasn't that they were lacking of the materials, more that they didn't have the intelligence or knowledge to utilize them.

    [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I'll take Amerindians over Africans any day of the week.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Despite how genetically far apart they are, every Indian reserve I've seen looks exactly like an African shanty town. They love to bitch at European Canadians for not giving them "clean running water", but the Romans had built aqueducts and plumbing, thousands of years ago. Why can't they just build it themselves?

    The Native Indians are also extremely violent. They've earned their name "savages" because they're always getting arrested and thrown in jail. It's very hard to sympathize with these people, when they have the same problem as black culture. They get drunk on alcohol, mouthwash or paint fumes, and just want to blame us for their failures.

    [–]goobandit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    They love to bitch at European Canadians for not giving them "clean running water", but the Romans had built aqueducts and plumbing, thousands of years ago. Why can't they just build it themselves?

    The huhugam people built the canal system that’s still in use in Phoenix Arizona. When they showed early settlers how to divert water for irrigation, the settlers went upstream and diverted a massive volume of water, cutting off the hand that fed them.

    Don’t forget that the Donner party shot members of the Washoe tribe, who had brought them food.

    Indigenous people have had mixed interactions with settlers because some showed up to fight and some were simply trying to escape tyranny. The problems arose because those who came to conquer did so under the guise of helping and improving life, which we all know is still how they do it today. Native tribes are quite possibly the only group in the USA who can, in a court of law, maintain their rights as sovereign nations and sovereign citizens. So you can imagine why it is imperative that they are indoctrinated to serve the machine and cheer for “decolonization,” when it will eventually destroy their autonomy.

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Don’t forget that the Donner party shot members of the Washoe tribe, who had brought them food.

    You mean they ate each other up???

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    They get drunk on alcohol, mouthwash or paint fumes, and just want to blame us for their failures.

    LOL sometimes your jokes are really good. You have this act down really well.

    [–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I was shocked to find out that you're not allowed to bring 100% legally purchased alcohol onto Indian reservations. Why? Because evidently they're predisposed to be alcoholics. Racist as fuck policy that refutes the "there's no such thing as race" narrative. But it's there, and leftists are adamant that it must be enforced.

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The first time I sat down at a restaurant at an Indian reservation, I ordered a beer. They explained that only the casino was allowed to serve alcohol. Later that night I stopped at a gas station to buy some beer. They told me I would have to drive off the reservation to find alcohol.

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

    I imagine they viewed amerindians as unsophisticated savages and black africans as some sort of higher functioning ape primate species, like chimpanzees that recently discovered how to walk upright.

    [–]SoylentCapitalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    and black africans as some sort of higher functioning ape primate species

    Seeing as how the Portuguese courtier Diogo Gomes signed a peace treaty with West Africans after they were defeated by blacks I highly doubt that.

    The Mandekalu inflicted a series of defeats against the Portuguese due to the former's expert war archers, and their use of poison arrows. The defeats forced Portugal's king to dispatch his courtier Diogo Gomes in 1456 to secure peace. The effort was a success by 1462, and trade became Portugal's focus along the Senegambia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_Mali_Empire#The_Portuguese

    To be honest I also can't tell if you're trolling or ignorant.

    [–]VraiBleuScots Protestant, Ulster Loyalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Even chimps can kill a man when he’s far from home, outnumbered & dying of malaria.

    Those treaties that were signed resulted in Africans gradually ceding more and more power to the Portuguese & other Europeans. Why would they do this if they were equals?

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Even chimps can kill a man when he’s far from home, outnumbered & dying of malaria.

    Exactly. Apes are still dangerous. No one is denying that. Remember Harambe?

    [–]SoylentCapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Even chimps can kill a man when he’s far from home, outnumbered & dying of malaria.

    No one is sending a courtier to sign a peace treaty with chimps.

    Those treaties that were signed resulted in Africans gradually ceding more and more power to the Portuguese & other Europeans.

    You're making a strawman. No one said they were equals, they were simply their fellow man not the ape primate that other midwit suggested. Although blacks did put up a better fight against Europeans than Amerindians did. Ethiopians defeated Italy in a war for example, whereas the Aztec Empire was conquered by a few thousand conquistadors.

    [–]VraiBleuScots Protestant, Ulster Loyalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    It was just a comparison, nobody’s saying Africans are literally the same as apes. But they’re not the same as Europeans either. That’s all

    Amerindians won wars against the Europeans too. But you have to look at the overall situation instead of zooming in on one battle/conflict. As soon as modern medicine allowed Europeans to not die as soon as they made shore, Africa fell in decades. It wasn’t even a contest.

    [–]SoylentCapitalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Amerindians won wars against the Europeans too. But you have to look at the overall situation instead of zooming in on one battle/conflict. As soon as modern medicine allowed Europeans to not die as soon as they made shore, Africa fell in decades. It wasn’t even a contest.

    Ethiopia defeated 25,000 Italians. Show me a single Amerindian war that defeated anywhere near as much. African states survived longer than Amerindian ones and it wasn't because Europeans were dying from disease.

    It was just a comparison, nobody’s saying Africans are literally the same as apes. But they’re not the same as Europeans either. That’s all

    Yes and his comparison is wrong, Africans probably weren't seen as in his words "higher functioning ape primate species" even though now we know humans technically are higher functioning primates those explorers would not have.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Ethiopia defeated 25,000 Italians. Show me a single Amerindian war that defeated anywhere near as much. African states survived longer than Amerindian ones and it wasn't because Europeans were dying from disease.

    Ethiopia is such a strange country. They could win a war against a European country, but they lost against another [and much more smaller] African one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrean_War_of_Independence

    Not to mention, despite the lack of colonization, they are still the poorest country in Africa. Even Nigeria has higher standards of living than them.

    Compare that to the American Indians who lost their wars, but still managed to build countries that resemble Eastern Europe.

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Wasn't their great university made out of mud and used to teach something stupid and gay like Islam?

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    LOL, no one is saying Apes can't fight or fill a building with poop. Also, why is the African guy named muhammed? Is this example from after they learned from Arabs?

    Upon the advice of his brother Askiya Muhammad Dawud did not chase the mansa's smaller force into the mountains and hills and instead bivouacked in the city for some seven days. During this time, Kurminafari Dawud announced to his soldiers that whoever wished to answer a call of nature should do so in the royal palace. By the seventh day, the entire palace was filled with excrement despite its great size.[79] Mali's humiliation was now complete.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    when Cortes and the conquistadors got to Tenochtitlan they just wanted to peacefully trade until they witnissed the human sacrifices. Then they noped out and killed fucking everyone. They learned who they were dealing with. I think none of the killing of Indians would have happened if not for that first contact. They were savages and had to be taken down though.