Is this a psyop? Boomer conservatives calling liberalism "fascism".

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[–]Nombre27 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fascism is wrongly used as a synonym for authoritarianism because of poor historical literacy.

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    [–]VraiBleuScots Protestant, Ulster Loyalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yup, unfortunately this isn’t new at all. Every week or so I see some boomer-con doing this. I try to explain it to them how wrong they are, in a polite way with limited success

    [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Seems like they are simply trying to steal the moral high ground that liberals crowned themselves with in the 60's.

    Daren Beattie nailed this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnGMVmBHlc8

    but again the the conservatives are WAY to late on that train.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Short answer: You are overthinking this.

    Well, not entirely. They've been told their entire life that what they don't like is "fascism" by the left, so when the left acts authoritarian, then the conservatives think they're acting "fascistic". Remember conservatives LIVE INSIDE a left wing world view. They view everything through the leftist bubble and it takes a long time to break yourself free from this indoctrination.

    Conservatives are last decades liberals. They're still liberals, they just didn't get the latest update. Maybe they found out from Fox News and friends that 1 aspect of liberalism is wrong, so they mock the "liberals" about that 1 thing. As the years go, they add more and more things to that list of things liberals get wrong, but they're still seeing things from INSIDE the bubble.

    What redpilled me on the fascism question was a dude saying "It's not fascism, it's communism. Fascists are opposed to this.", when I wrote my "the leftists are the real fascists!" comments.

    What they mean is authoritarianism, not fascism. Fascism is just shorter and easier to write lol.

    Source: lived experience :)

    [–]MosheCircumshteynRabbi Moshe Schlomo Circumshteyn of Tel Avi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This. Most Western countries don't actually have a 'Right-wing' in the true sense. They merely have two competing groups of Leftists, with one less extreme than the other. This less extreme wing of Leftism calls itself the 'Centre' (e.g. the German CDU or British Tories) or 'Right' (e.g. the US Republican Party) simply because it is defining itself relative to the more extreme wing (i.e. if they're Left, well, we're something other than Left and thus are 'Centre' or 'Right').

    Both obviously operate from within the same 'discourse' ('worldview' or 'bubble' as you put it), e.g. everything we dislike is 'fascistic', the other side are the 'real racists', the other side are the real enemies of 'freedom' and 'equality', etc. They don't think from outside of that discourse, e.g. that it doesn't actually matter whether something is 'fascistic', 'racist', 'unequal', etc. If they think these things matter, they've already internalized Leftism.

    You went through a sort of mainstream faux-Right false opposition phase? Where you saw the Left as being the real Far-Right like all faux-Rightists do, i.e. progressives/liberals are the 'real Nazis and fascists', they used to support eugenics which inspired the Nazis, they always talk about animal rights, environmentalism and socialized this and that which the Nazis also did to varying degrees, so therefore Clinton, Corbyn, Biden, Merkel and Macron are the new Hitlers, and perhaps that the EU is the Fourth Reich?

    I never went through that phase (or any Leftist phase), but it does seem that a lot of people who reject the discourse actually started from within it, embracing worldviews that seem utterly outrageous when viewed from outside of the 'bubble'. Of course, I think the 'bubble' is somewhat inescapable as it permeates almost everything, but people considered 'Right-wing extremists' are far closer to escaping the bubble than anyone else. Indeed, 'extremist' often seems to be used as a label by people within a bubble to refer to people who are close to escaping it. If too many people become 'extremists', then the whole bubble pops—rebellion occurs. So people need to be kept within the bubble, away from 'extremism', through processes of indoctrination and socialization. The education system, media, etc. all work to preserve the bubble, e.g. by misinterpreting everything in ways that do not threaten it. For example, Antifa violence is misinterpreted farcically as 'actually being Far-Right violence in disguise'. Therefore what would normally threaten Left-wing hegemony now reinforces it, i.e. the 'Far-Right' is the 'real' problem, not us Leftists. Similar to how the Democrats opposed travel bans, supported the BLM protests and were largely 'anti-vaxxers' until Biden was elected (we don't trust Trump's vaccine, it's being rushed in time for the election), i.e. all things that would exacerbate any pandemic's spread. Of course, this reality is buried and replaced by a false narrative ('Trump is responsible for Covid'), which supports (helps get Biden elected) rather than damages the bubble.

    [–]GST893 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

    National Socialism is a left wing concept for starters. Fascism is the collusion of state and corporate power. We are witnessing varying degrees of both throughout the world.

    [–]douglas_waltersWhite Supremacist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    National Socialism is a left-wing concept

    The vague distinctions between "Left" and "Right" in modern politics have diluted the terms to the point of insolvency. So a definition is required. Mine would go accordingly:

    Left: The undermining or outright subjugation of natural processes due to an artificial understanding of man's place in the world. Various ideas have contributed to this categorisation: social and economic equality, human rights, pacifism, atheism, anti-hereditarianism, etc.

    Right: Conceptions that align with the natural order united in a higher sense of spirituality. Anti-egalitarianism, racialism, hierarchy, authority, duty and tradition typically characterise such worldviews.

    Using this definition, National Socialism is right-wing.

    Fascism is the collusion of state and corporate power

    A falsity spread by leftists to besmirch the legitimacy of fascist thought.

    Corporatism is an economic model that organises society into sectors or "occupational franchises". Each type of industry and profession obtains a corporation to which it is obligated to comply. It transcends class divisions by democratising these corporations—employers, workers, and consumers receive representation. The state selects the consumer representatives for each industrial corporation as the nation itself is the ultimate consumer. However, employers' federations and trade unions would respectively elect their employer and worker representatives.

    The entire rationale of the system is to protect the individual from capitalistic exploitation and the nation from the profuse detriments of unregulated capitalism. Ensuring the nation's future would be in the hands of the people, not the hidden machinations of financial oligarchs.

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nailed it again

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Fascism is the collusion of state and corporate power.

    No it isn't. Every single state on earth colludes with corporate power which by your incredibly broad definition would mean that every single state on earth is fascist to one degree or another. That's absurd.

    You're confusing corporatism which was a aspect of Italian fascism which is a governing ideology that is not related to modern business corporations with something else much like Chomsky did.

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This has been a stupid conservative talking point for decades. From Goldberg's 'liberal fascism' to nearly everything dinesh d'souza has ever written they repeat this like a mantra. I don't think it's necessarily a psy-op but the idea of calling your opponent the real nazis is just an addictive palliative for conservatives and they're drawn to it because, much like the left, they've totally bought into the post-war consensus that the ultimate representation of evil on earth is Nazism.

    [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't think boomers are being tricked into calling liberals fascists. Jews have been fighting on the level of meta politics for 70 years and all of that hard work has paid off. Hitler is the most evil figure in history for liberals AND conservatives in the current year. If you want to take the moral high ground in american political discourse you have to compare your opponent to Hitler. If you can trick you opponent into supporting Hitler in anyway you are instantly bounced out of any career or 'polite' circle in the US. We are now an nation of over socialized that can be triggered into a though termination programming at any moment.

    For the average normie there is no deeper level of thought going on here. Hitler equals evil and since Hitler was a fascist then fascism equals evil as well.

    What's funny is one facet of fascism is the marriage of business and government to achieve large public works. In a way the left has successfully coordinated business and government to promote drugs, LGBT, individualism, anti Christianity, disaster capitalism and anti whiteness. There is a small ethnic collective pulling together to use multiple institutions to achieve their plans.

    [–]Tom9152 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (12 children)

    Liberals and Fascists both want censorship, gun control, blame problems on one race, free heath care, free college, high taxes, violence against political opponents, and more.

    https://www.opindia.com/2020/01/similarities-between-liberals-fascists-nazis/

    https://www.aim.org/briefing/liberal-fascism-explained/

    https://liberalsbackwardsthink.com/2017/05/01/fascism-in-america/

    And more

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    Show me one person here who advocates for violence agains their political opponents or gun control. You can't. Also the most insane reaction to the liberal position on race is to say 'well I'm not like them so it's wrong have a position'. Race and identity are just a fundamental reality in a society -- especially in a multi-racial or multi-ethnic one. They must be approached and examined like any other issue. Yes the Dissident Right has criticism of different races -- including the White race -- but the goal is to determine who's right about race and who's being honest. Not analyzing race seriously is why conservatives lose AGAIN AND AGAIN and always will lose. No matter how silly the left's racial take is they're still putting forward a narrative for people on the issue. If you have a narrative on an issue you're always going to beat someone who doesn't and if you're only narrative is 'race doesn't matter let's just forget about it' you're going to get pummeled.

    Also I'm no free speech absolutist that's definitely true. That's an insane position. If you advocate for say the idea that children should mutilate themselves because they think they're a different 'gender' to their biology, advocate for the lowering of the age of consent or say publish pornography which is obscenity and not a liberty you're going to jail in my ideal society. Sorry, too bad. Guess you shouldn't have done that.

    Also I love how you think government funded schooling and health care is some ultimate evil. Guess what we have free health care in Australia and it works amazingly well. We have one of the best health care systems in the world. You've been manipulated by ideologues to think this is somehow akin to Satan.

    [–]Tom9152 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    who advocates for violence agains their political opponents

    Antifa

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I'm not part of anti-fa though and you're saying we're the same which is clearly wrong.

    [–]Tom9152 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    If you voted left, you rewarded antifa violence. You have the same responsibility

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I didn't vote left.

    [–]Tom9152 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    government funded schooling and health care

    Tax payer funded. The government has never paid for anything.

    [–]Tom9152 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    who's right about race

    Irrelevant. Blacks own Africa, Asians own Asia, Whites own Europe, jews own israel, no mater what racial statistics exist. Superiority is irrelevant

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree with that. I don't believe in white racial advocacy because I think whites are superior. Squabbling about who is and isn't the superior race is tedious and a waste of time and the bottom line is all people have the right to collectively advocate to advance their own interests.

    [–]douglas_waltersWhite Supremacist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Liberalism presupposes the idea of an "abstract" individual that exists outside the confines of the community. Society is merely an aggregate of individuals who have contractually merged for mutual interest. Personal interests are thus in constant antagonism with society and, by extension, the state. The liberal state is an external mechanism devised to limit the independence of the individual.

    Fascism rejects this notion of the individual as ahistorical, divisive and egoistic.

    Fascists conceive man as a communal being whose consciousness recognises the shared need of agreeable conduct and common identity. This universal consciousness finds its expression in the community—a function of the history and culture within a nation. Thus, the state is inherent in the consciousness of each individual and represents the will of the people. It is an ethical conception more "democratic" than the Western plutocracies masquerading as democracies.

    Using coinciding minutiae to inform your understanding of all-encompassing political ideologies is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst.

    [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nice work

    [–]Tom9152 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Using coinciding minutiae

    Every goal of the dnc was a goal of the nazis. That's not a minor coincidence

    [–]MosheCircumshteynRabbi Moshe Schlomo Circumshteyn of Tel Avi 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I've been seeing this for years. What's new about it?

    The Left call the Right 'fascist'. The faux-Right call the Left 'fascist'.

    It just shows that the Left has a hegemonic stranglehold on society to the extent that even the faux-Right false 'opposition' has internalized most of their talking points.

    Both the Left and the faux-Right attacks everyone Rightward of themselves, which of course entrenches Leftist power and helps push the Overton Window ever Leftward.

    If the faux-Right or real Right controlled society (i.e. what Leftist morons tend to believe), the faux-Right would call the Left communists and the Left would call the faux-Right communists. Everyone would thus be attacking everyone Leftward of themselves (everyone would hate actual communists), pushing the Overton Window ever Rightward. This is obviously the exact reverse of what is actually happening.

    Take America. The Republican Party is now so socioculturally Left-wing that they're standing outright trannies just a couple of years after the Democrats started standing their own. "Yeah, the Trans-Jenner is indeed a tranny... but we're talking about a conservative tranny here. Our tranny."

    Similar thing with same-sex marriage. In 2008 the Democrats formally didn't support it. By 2012 the Democrats did. By 2016 the Republicans also effectively did, since they took zero action against it. The difference between them was thus not even four years, at least on that particular issue. It remains a common perception on the Right that the Republicans are maybe ten years behind the Democrats on sociocultural issues. In reality it probably isn't even five on most issues, with that gap tending towards closing rather than widening. At the moment we can see a widening on matters like CRT, but I'm sure that by 2025 the GOP will start moving back the other way towards CRT acceptance. The likes of Christopher Rufo or Jordan Peterson aren't going to win, since they're trying to fight the Left-liberals of 2021 with the Left-liberalism of decades past.