Blackpill content is a form of psychological warfare and rightists should be extremely wary of it.

submitted by Ponderer from self.debatealtright

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[–]peaceful✞ 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (28 children)

The benefit to recognizing and stating problems as bad as they are is to generate thought about solutions, and to create awareness about the need for action.

For example, saying "whites are too stupid about race to save their race" raises awareness and helps direct people towards tackling it.

Of course some people might give up when failure or problems are admitted but such people aren't going to be effective anyway.

I don't believe false optimism is usually beneficial. If you are dedicated to the cause why would you take your ball and go home just because there is not much hope?

If you have awareness about racial reality and jews there is no giving up, because a world where the altright loses is a hellscape.

[–]Ponderer[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Let me break this down.

to create awareness about the need for action.

This awareness already exists. The dissident right has existed in its current form for at least half a decade, possibly longer. I'd be extremely surprised if anyone on this sub is new to these ideas or needs additional motivation that they are correct.

Is there really anyone here who is unsure that we're in a bad situation that we need to get out of? If so, why?

generate thought about solutions

Thought about potential solutions would be excellent. Unfortunately this thought is in very short supply, and blackpill posts don't seem to have anything to do with practical solutions. If anything they're mutually exclusive - blackpill posts discourage action, dampen enthusiasm, and increase fear.

Take a quick scan of the frontpage of this sub, and note how many posts discuss problems, versus how many suggest solutions or even actions of any kind. Posts about problems completely overwhelm posts about solutions.

saying "whites are too stupid about race to save their race" raises awareness and helps direct people towards tackling it.

I don't understand. A statement like that is clearly fatalistic and discourages any sort of productive action.

If you take that statement at face value, there is no point in encouraging whites to do anything. If you assert that white people are just idiots and cannot be saved, then where can you possibly go from there? What solution can be proposed?

How is a statement like that anything other than demoralizing and demotivating?

Of course some people might give up when failure or problems are admitted but such people aren't going to be effective anyway.

If a community does nothing but talk about their failures and problems, it would be enough to make anyone break over a long enough period of time.

Imagine telling someone "you're going to fail and die" over and over, multiple times a day. For the first few days or weeks they might be motivated to resist. But after hearing this for months or even years, they will eventually succumb and start to agree - "I guess you're right, I will fail and die."

Why do you see that as a good thing to do?

I don't believe false optimism is usually beneficial.

Being realistic is important. Hyperfocusing on the negatives is not realistic.

If you are dedicated to the cause why would you take your ball and go home just because there is not much hope?

Why is trying to drill hopelessness into people who agree with you the goal?

there is no giving up, because a world where the altright loses is a hellscape.

If you work overtime 24/7 to convince people that winning is impossible, and expose them to only the most negative news, then eventually they will believe you and give up by default. If they believe hellscape is inevitable no matter what they do, why bother working to prevent it? Why wouldn't they turn their backs on you and enjoy what time they have?

This makes no sense at all. Again, look at my analogy of wartime propaganda. Every country that has ever put up a fight has used rousing slogans like "We don't stand alone", "God is with us", "We can do it!"

I have never seen a country using a motto like "Our people are stupid and we can't be saved." Why would that work at all?

[–]Node 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Are we tolerating a species so substandard that it has to be convinced to attempt functional behaviors, just because we're members?

when ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise

While reality seems the rational choice, I understand the attraction of ignorance. Anyway, people deserve to receive the consequences they choose, so I try not to harp on this Oxycontin of blackpills.

[–]Ponderer[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think there's a difference between taking a reason-based position like "Many white people intrinsically hate themselves, therefore it only makes sense to support the subset of whites that don't" versus something like "our situation is hopeless, white people are too stupid to be saved."

Even in the darkest of times, there is always something positive that can be done to improve things. Demoralization is merely a form of self-harm, as well as a way to psychologically harm others.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Even in the darkest of times, there is always something positive that can be done to improve things.

Agreed, even if it might seem (to some) like on the level of adding parsley to a shit sandwich.

It's not that white people in particular are too stupid, it's that human beings in general are too easy to manipulate. Look, we've gone from beating known faggots in the community to kids cutting off their own dicks with the approval (or at least tolerance) of the masses.

Am having a somewhat similar exchange with the radicalcenterist account, and he blames everything on 'the boomers'. As if we were supermen compared to the kind of people seen today.. We obviously weren't cutting our own dicks off, so maybe it could be said as "less propagandized by a still unperfected technology", but the manipulation wasn't as widely known then either.

Demoralization is merely a form of self-harm, as well as a way to psychologically harm others.

Am I misreading this, or are you essentially agreeing that people in general are so emotionally weak that exposure to reality is harmful to them? Kind of like the screaming woman meme not being entirely unrepresentative of humanity as a whole?

Maybe my expectations are just way too high.

[–]Ponderer[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

he blames everything on 'the boomers'. As if we were supermen compared to the kind of people seen today..

I agree, I think it's silly to blame everything on one generation. In any case it would have been a small percentage of people in power making the decisions. It's kind of like blaming all millennials or all Gen Z for transgenderism existing. It's not their fault, it's the people in charge of the media.

Am I misreading this, or are you essentially agreeing that people in general are so emotionally weak that exposure to reality is harmful to them?

Two things:

  1. It's not reality. It's a concentrated feed of the worst aspects of reality. If all you read is bad news, your vision of the world will become distorted and you will start to see things as hopeless. It's a bit like working as a 9-11 phone operator - eventually you would come to think assaults, rapes, murders, and thefts were happening all over the place, to everyone, all of the time, when in reality they might be fairly rare. You would just be overexposing yourself to them, and underexposing yourself to the more positive parts of life.

  2. I don't see people as emotionally weak for reacting this way. Even the bravest, most hardened warriors experienced shell shock. You might say that being next to an exploding shell is nothing like reading a news article, but psychologically... have you never gotten furious about something you saw on TV, or read on the news? Or maybe it was something good, and it made your day. If you can feel that strongly about something you've read, then so can others, and for other emotions like depression and demoralization. It would be a little absurd to say that the media we expose ourselves to has no emotional effect on us. Over a long enough timespan, that effect can become more and more pronounced, until it consumes your entire personality. That is why we have the epidemic of "doomers" we see today.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for this. I believe the positive and negative aspects of our current reality are unevenly distributed. That is, yes, the plants in the garden are growing fine, the sun is shining, and the waves are crashing on the beach. The weather here is better than any other place, and the physical characteristics are pretty outstanding. So there are positives.

Politically, it looks like they've decided to implement dystopia, and most people are just accepting it as the new "guidance" from their boss. That seems like the concentrated feed of the worst aspects of reality has become the new way of life outside my front door.

Where is the civil war? Why are the people openly doing this not being assassinated? The lack of any resistance to the end of our society is a real doom-pill. I've always wanted to be wrong about our species, but I would have to be on drugs to ignore what's happening.

If all you read is bad news, your vision of the world will become distorted and you will start to see things as hopeless.

While this is true, sometimes the only news about certain aspects of reality is bad. Most of our species are herd animals, who follow any orders given. I've been seeing extreme examples of that outside my door and on the internet for the past 1.5 years.

Maybe I need to recalibrate my expectations, as they seem to have become unrealistically high back in 2015. Even though Trump admitted the day after the 2016 election that he lied to get elected, I did kind of get sucked into the fantasy that humans are more than they are. That hopium is a hell of a drug.

[–]peaceful✞ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

This awareness already exists.

The altright does not realize most of the problem is whites. The altright has often thought they were about to win no matter how bad things got. I advocate being realistic.

blackpill posts discourage action, dampen enthusiasm, and increase fear.

There's a reason successful political campaigns are based on fear, it motivates people to vote. It doesn't dampen their enthusiasm.

How can you address white stupidity about race without stating it? The start of change is the articulation of problems.

If you assert that white people are just idiots and cannot be saved, then where can you possibly go from there? What solution can be proposed?

I expect the altright to work hard at waking whites, not give up and say "Nothing can be done about white stupidity."

trying to drill hopelessness into people

Many things in life are impossible or near-impossible. White genocide is somewhat hopeless but not impossible if many people work hard to wake whites. But that brings up another blackpill: the altright won't do the necessary hard work of waking whites. A few leaders can't do the heavy lifting.

Hyperfocusing on the negatives is not realistic.

I don't advocate for hyperfocusing on the negatives. I never said work 24/7 to convince people that winning is impossible.

Every country that has ever put up a fight has used rousing slogans like "We don't stand alone", "God is with us", "We can do it!"

There has never been a war where the army thought they themselves are the enemy, as whites now think of themselves. What if in the war on ISIS the US army attacked itself, claiming that was the highest moral good, and then attacked you if you tried to convince them of their fault? That would be a problem of stupidity and treachery. Yet that is what whites are doing to themselves. Such a problem would have to be articulated in order to be solved.

I experience many white people giving resistance to white nationalism every day. They will insult, threaten, deplatform, get you fired from your job, etc. in order for the white race to die. There is case to be made that whites deserve most of the blame for this anti-whiteism.

[–]Ponderer[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There's a reason successful political campaigns are based on fear, it motivates people to vote.

There is a difference between "If our enemy wins, we're in trouble! Fortunately we're not done for yet. Here's how we can win instead." and "We're going to lose. We're fucked. It's over."

If you defend the latter, I don't know how to even respond to you.

How much more afraid do you expect people to get? Once they are terminally afraid, cowering under their beds and cringing at every sound, do you expect them to become effective activists?

A little fear can motivate people, but only fear of inaction and only combined with the hope and potential of a workable solution. Doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on fear and providing no alternative is braindead.

[Stopping] White genocide is somewhat hopeless but not impossible if many people work hard to wake whites.

Then you should be saying "Our cause is not impossible if we work hard!" Not "our situation is hopeless" even if it's just "somewhat" hopeless.

But that brings up another blackpill: the altright won't do the necessary hard work of waking whites.

Why do you get off on blackpilling? What is the point of making final, decisive statements like this against the same movement you claim to support?

Such a problem would have to be articulated in order to be solved.

There is a huge difference between articulating a rational position and blackpilling.

Blackpilling is indefensible by definition. It's defeatism. Even if it sometimes deals with accurate information, it frames that information in such a way as to increase hopelessness.

Imagine you're stuck in a burning building with another man. You suggest using a fire extinguisher to put it out, but he says "oh, there's too much fire already, it would never work." You suggest calling the fire brigade, but he says "they'd take too long to get here." You suggest running out through the front door, but he says "there's flames in the way, we'd just burn to death." You suggest jumping out a window, but he says "it's too high, we'd break our bones and die."

Is this man "being realistic"? Of course not. At best he's delusionally depressed, at worst he's a snake who wants you to burn to death.

I'm not even against the rational position you take. There are many white people who hate themselves. But there's only two ways to respond to that: either we can convince them to stop hating themselves, or we ignore them and focus on helping others.

If you want to raise awareness about that, all it takes is a single post. State your position clearly and logically and ask what the next steps are. There is zero need to post over and over for months and years about the latest atrocity caused by woke whites without ever proposing solutions.

[–]peaceful✞ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've posted a lot that the solution is to wake whites, for many people to distribute propaganda massively. I haven't seen a lot of people do it and I know it takes determination and hard work to try to wake up hundreds of millions of whites. I don't think the altright will do it. It's necessary to say we are on the path to defeat on order to right our course. I agree defeatism is bad, but realism is necessary. You are misinterpreting some of my positions. I don't say there's no chance for victory or that nothing should be done. I believe the altright has to create hope for there to be hope.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've posted a lot that the solution is to wake whites

I just went through 16 days of your post history and didn't really see you explain that at all. When it was mentioned it was very offhand. Maybe you should make a post outlining solutions and it might also be a good idea to list out things about whites that you are passionate about.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What are you thoughts on /u/peaceful ? I've gone through his post history and it's extraordinarily negative. I've given him a chance to respond to some questions but I'd also like your input.

[–]Ponderer[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for asking. If you've been through this comment chain you've pretty much seen everything; I don't know him that well.

I don't want to crack down on someone who might just be feeling pessimistic, but maybe a guideline like "don't share bad news without proposing a reasonable, sane, and detailed solution" could be good.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't want to crack down on someone who might just be feeling

Same here. I appreciate your input. I will see how he responds and I will keep an eye on him.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There has never been a war where the army thought they themselves are the enemy, as whites now think of themselves. What if in the war on ISIS the US army attacked itself, claiming that was the highest moral good, and then attacked you if you tried to convince them of their fault? That would be a problem of stupidity and treachery. Yet that is what whites are doing to themselves. Such a problem would have to be articulated in order to be solved.

What is your solution to this?

I experience many white people giving resistance to white nationalism every day. They will insult, threaten, deplatform, get you fired from your job, etc. in order for the white race to die.

All of those people think they are just deplatoforming and firing a 'racist' they don't think they are killing the white race. That's quite hyperbolic to think that.

There is case to be made that whites deserve most of the blame for this anti-whiteism.

I don't really understand what you mean by this. Please expand on this. How are whites to blame for anti whitism?? Anti whitism is clearly pushed by jews. Even progressive white don't really openly push anti white slogans and phrases unless really pushed into it. They normally let other non whites and Jews do the anti white stuff. Much of the anti white stuff is often framed in a way that a progressive liberal doesn't really see it as evil. It just seems like anti colonialism and other 'restorative justice' type ideas. I'm really curious as to your explanation for how whites, as a group, are responsible.

[–]peaceful✞ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You told me I have to respond to why I'm not a shill or be banned. That's the problem, if a shill calls a prowhite a shill you get anxious and start banning the accused. Only two people called me a shill, and shilldetector calls everyone he disagrees with a shill. This thread already explains why I'm not a shill. Calling people shills who have never said anything untrue or anti-white is the real demoralization.

What is your solution to this?

In most threads I've discussed the white problem I've also posted how to fix it, that of massive distribution of propaganda. We got in this mess through (television) propaganda so it follows we could fix it the same way.

All of those people think they are just deplatoforming and firing a 'racist' they don't think they are killing the white race

Not all, but I agree many don't know it, yet destroying the white race is still the effect they are having.

Please expand on this. How are whites to blame for anti whitism?? Anti whitism is clearly pushed by jews. Even progressive white don't
really openly push anti white slogans and phrases unless really pushed into it. They normally let other non whites and Jews do the anti white stuff. Much of the anti white stuff is often framed in a way that a progressive liberal doesn't really see it as evil. It just seems like anti colonialism and other 'restorative justice' type ideas. I'm really curious as to your explanation for how whites, as a group, are responsible.

This is the reason I think we need to reach whites with propaganda. They alone ultimately determine their destiny. Have you watched television in the last 40 years? It is full of whites espousing/propagandizing anti-racism, and anti-racism is a code word for anti-white. Most whites have this vociferous anti-racism that convinces them to oppose the alt-right. I think 90% of whites disagree with the alt-right according to a recent poll you probably recall. Even the conservative right supports white erasure/white genocide precisely because of their anti-racism. Fox News is fully on board with unlimited immigration and forced diversity, and I personally experience that whites on the internet reflect what whites on tv think perfectly.

As I said, the main point of my thread was to prove the people on DAE aren't having success in waking up whites, and for the most part I think I proved it. But I also wanted to vent. Overall this issue of the white problem is of primary importance to saving the white race, that's why I feel justified in debating the altright about the severity of it even if I am attacked for it.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's the problem, if a shill calls a prowhite a shill you get anxious and start banning the accused.

That's a divisive comment. Multiple people have asked you to provide more answer oriented posts. I've reviewed your post history as well.

This thread already explains why I'm not a shill

You didn't do a very good job.

Calling people shills who have never said anything untrue or anti-white is the real demoralization.

One of the common attacks on our spaces are 'demoralization attacks'. People come in an post as much negative content as possible. They don't ask questions. They don't pose solutions. They never comment in other threads. They just attack, attack, attack with endless pessimism, negativity and tactical nihilism. You've done it very subtly here again with your 'I've discussed the 'white problem'' framing.

They alone ultimately determine their destiny

You keep using 'they' are you not white?

This is the reason I think we need to reach whites with propaganda

Lazy and overly generalized point. We do not control the 'television' and nobody really watches television anymore. Everyone under 40 is a cord cutter. We talk about Jewish control over media production all the time yet you never bring them up.

I think 90% of whites disagree with the alt-right according to a recent poll you probably recall.

Alt right views are in the minority put it's a LOT higher then 10% and with the right framing the majority of whites probably agree with many of our points. Maybe not all but many.

It is full of whites espousing/propagandizing anti-racism, and anti-racism is a code word for anti-white. Most whites have this vociferous anti-racism that convinces them to oppose the alt-right. I think 90% of whites disagree with the alt-right according to a recent poll you probably recall. Even the conservative right supports white erasure/white genocide precisely because of their anti-racism.

Everyone on this sub is already VERY familiar with these points.

As I said, the main point of my thread was to prove the people on DAE aren't having success in waking up whites,

It's "DAR" which stand for debate alt right. Our sub isn't a propaganda outlet. We are a debate group. If we wake people ups it's one at a time through a slow process or rationalization, evidence and appeal to common sense morality. There's really no way to track how many people we are waking up with this sub so your claim that we are 'failing' is just another demoralization.

Regardless of if you are genuine or not I think you've misrepresented yourself and you also need some time to reflect on what you really believe. If you are genuine spend some time away from DAR looking for solutions and reading about action and solution oriented people. You have a 2 week ban. If you come back to dar please present all your negative arguments and claims in one thread every other week or so. Do not sit day in and day out sniping and demoralizing. If you do not follow that recommendation you will be banned permanently.

Your ban will start tomorrow morning. You can respond publicly to this comment if you'd like.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Even false hope is better than despair. And hope for the cause of the white race is anything but false.

[–]Ponderer[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even false hope is better than despair.

Well said. I wouldn't even say "false hope" necessarily, just a positive outlook.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“The Legionary spirit is that fire of one who will choose the hardest road, who will fight to the death even when all is already lost.”

  • Evola

“We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man.”

  • Spengler

[–]skeech 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The benefit to recognizing and stating problems as bad as they are is to generate thought about solutions, and to create awareness about the need for action.

can you name one single solution that has been formulated thru this sub?

feel free to start a new thread and invite me to it.

i will wait right here.

[–]Ponderer[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

can you name one single solution that has been formulated thru this sub?

Very well put.

I actually do think some solutions have been proposed here, but consider the ratio of threads that focus on inane "news" versus those that focus on positive things people can do to improve their lives and their communities.

Here is a good positive thread. I just wish there were a lot more like it.

[–]peaceful✞ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

can you name one single solution that has been formulated thru this sub?

Do you mean through this subsaiddit? The altright is short on solutions, even leaders don't urge solutions much.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Solutions: Corbett posts many of them on his site and channels.

Joining together, knowing each other, is the first solution. United we stand, divided we fall. The main problem that the Alt-Right has is that we don't know exactly how many of us there are, and we don't have any meeting places.

I'll bet some smart individuals might study the market preferences of every group, including ours, and design businesses tailored to such preferences. Then people get to know each other and unite. There's a real market opportunity here, both for making a nice living AND a real difference.

See? I came up with this in less time than it took to write it. Simple, easy... There are more solutions than you can imagine.

[–]Ponderer[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Solid comment.

I'll bet some smart individuals might study the market preferences of every group, including ours, and design businesses tailored to such preferences. Then people get to know each other and unite. There's a real market opportunity here, both for making a nice living AND a real difference.

Starting businesses is a great idea.

we don't know exactly how many of us there are, and we don't have any meeting places.

I get this sense as well. Not just for the "alt right" but for right-leaning people and freethinkers generally. I get the sense that there are way more people skeptical of the woke agenda who are afraid to speak up. At the moment they're atomized and don't know how to connect with each other, but a communications strategy that focuses on solutions rather than just on problems could fix that.

[–]peaceful✞ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A white business would be susceptible to deplatforming of payment processors.

Networking is not a direct solution, it's just a beginning of part of a solution. The full/direct solution is for the network to then work hard to wake up tens of millions of whites.

[–]skeech 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It is not their goal to make solutions.

It is their goal to turn our social media into a clusterfuck.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TRUTH.