Without God there can be no moral society

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

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[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Well hang around. I've really enjoyed your posts so far -- recognize your name because it's quite unique.

[–]NayenezganiNot alt-right 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I've really enjoyed your posts so far -- recognize your name because it's quite unique.

Thanks! "Slayer of enemies", a Diné/Navajo deity.

I've been thinking, was monotheism overtaking polytheism always inevitable? (Like how there tends to be greater diversity after a mass extinction event but then the species inevitably stabilize according to their ecological niches. Just like the post-biological realm where earlier models of electronic equipment and vehicles are usually more heterogeneous before they converge into a particular standard. And there is a similar uniformity between most unrelated cultures where everyone eventually comes to an agreement on basic tenets of social conservatism and proscribing certain actions. Though monogamy itself is abnormal, I wonder if it would become standard on a sufficiently long time-scale due to its positive effect on social cohesion.)

It seems to me that most monotheistic religions associate mercy and justice with their god, whereas many polytheistic traditions have transactional rituals and imply that the only thing that matters is power. Were I to be alt-right, I would be wary of adopting any form of neo-paganism which does not seem to differ much in terms of morality from the various other primitive cults that can be found in Africa, Asia-Pacific, or the Americas.

In Hinduism I can see the evolution from primitive and arbitrary worship, to philosophical sophistication and cultivation of virtue, before sinking into the bog of cultural savagery as it synthesizes with various aboriginal traditions. India is known for its poor fecal management but not so much for its sanctification of cow urine: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-cow-urine-pa-idUSKBN2110D5

Anyway, on the topic of convergence and cultural immobility, Paul Skallas has been documenting some examples of what he calls "refinement culture": https://paulskallas.substack.com/p/refinement-culture

Part 2: https://paulskallas.substack.com/p/refinement-culture-c1b

It seems ineluctable.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've been thinking, was monotheism overtaking polytheism always inevitable?

Great question. In a Jungian sense I'd say yes given that the longing for a single God is much like the longing for a father. You could say that it's also appealing to the part of our psyche which desires order, hierarchy and boundaries. What's the left's motto 'It takes a village'? Have you noticed how the left is always favouring experimental familial forms? Not only do they want to remove the father from the child as that God figure they want to remove the idea of God. Wilhelm Reich realized that sexual liberation was the way to remove both God and the father from the life of man.

It seems to me that most monotheistic religions associate mercy and justice with their god, whereas many polytheistic traditions have transactional rituals and imply that the only thing that matters is power.

I guess in Christianity you have a happy balance between the two where the ultimate transaction has already taken place and you don't have to keep appeasing God with blood.

Were I to be alt-right, I would be wary of adopting any form of neo-paganism which does not seem to differ much in terms of morality from the various other primitive cults that can be found in Africa, Asia-Pacific, or the Americas.

Not everyone and not even most on the alt-right are pagans in my experience. I'm Christian and there's plenty of us here. Christianity gets a good kicking on the Dissident Right but it's by no means a required part of membership to be pagan.

In Hinduism I can see the evolution from primitive and arbitrary worship, to philosophical sophistication and cultivation of virtue, before sinking into the bog of cultural savagery as it synthesizes with various aboriginal traditions. India is known for its poor fecal management but not so much for its sanctification of cow urine: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-cow-urine-pa-idUSKBN2110D5

A racialist would probably put that down to racial degeneration with the blood of the Indo-European conquerors eventually becoming too intermingled with the Dravidian stock of the Sub-Continent. I'm absolutely no expert on that but I did read a really interesting piece about how modern molecular genetics is pretty much confirming the old idea that the caste system at least originally was set up as a way to maintain the separation of the 'Aryans' from the locals.

Thanks for the links. I don't know Skallas but will have a read.

[–]NayenezganiNot alt-right 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What's the left's motto 'It takes a village'? Have you noticed how the left is always favouring experimental familial forms?

Not surprising that many of them also advocate for lowering the age of consent or normalization of pedophilia.

I guess in Christianity you have a happy balance between the two where the ultimate transaction has already taken place and you don't have to keep appeasing God with blood.

Some polytheistic gods are like mercenaries that will prostitute their supernatural abilities if given the correct payment. The NT emphasizes proportionality of sacrifice (Mark 12:41-44) and moral restoration/transformation (Luke 15:31-32, Matthew 18:12-13), which suggests that (1) altruistic intent matters as much as or more than ability, and (2) the bad can become good. Maybe Irenaean theodicy is a cope but the concept does mirror biological evolution. Mitchell Heisman covered similar topics in his suicide note, haven't read all of it but some people might find it interesting if not insane: https://legacy.gscdn.nl/archives/images/suicide_note.pdf

A racialist would probably put that down to racial degeneration with the blood of the Indo-European conquerors eventually becoming too intermingled with the Dravidian stock of the Sub-Continent. I'm absolutely no expert on that but I did read a really interesting piece about how modern molecular genetics is pretty much confirming the old idea that the caste system at least originally was set up as a way to maintain the separation of the 'Aryans' from the locals.

I've seen a study suggesting that jâti-based endogamy solidifed during the times of the Gupta empire, maybe contemporaneous with the early stages of the Byzantine empire. The regular usage of "caste" in the English language does not allow for adequate distinction between jâti (tribe or micro-ethnicity) and varṇa (social classification not based on ancestry but vocation). Over time new communities of ambiguous affiliation can form (e.g. the Rajputs) while some jâtis are inextricable from their religious designation (e.g. the Saraswat Brahmins). There are hundreds of these.

A prevailing view in the archaeogenetics community is that modern Indians are a composite of ANI (Indo-Aryan Steppe migrants + IVC) and ASI (IVC + AASI) in varying proportions. The inhabitants of the Indus Valley civilization were technologically advanced for their era -- private latrines that were flushed, complex urban structures, utility systems -- and yet some of their remains indicate significant proportions of West Eurasian ancestry from Iran and smaller portions of DNA that seem to be related to Southeast Asian hunter-gatherers.

The Indian cultural complex is like a reverse Bermuda Triangle where you can find basically anything. It defies classification and is full of contradictions. Perhaps many of those odd behaviors originate from AASI-skewed populations? The AASI do seem to have some distant genetic affinity with the Andamanese, who also appear to have diverged from the same basal population as Oceanians (not Polynesians but Melanesians, Papuans, and Australians) and East Asians. I'm very curious about this group because I wonder how the current inhabitants of North Sentinel Island got there when they do not appear to have fully grasped firemaking in modern times. Possibly the Tasmanian effect if they descended from a larger population. Speaking of Australia, there does appear to have been some contact between Australians and Indians several millennia ago: https://theconversation.com/study-links-ancient-indian-visitors-to-australias-first-dingoes-11593

One thing the article doesn't mention is how retroflex consonants are an areal feature in India, but are also somehow rather prominent in Australian languages? Then again, it could be a coincidence since they do appear in some singular languages like Swedish.

That was longer than I intended, I don't pretend to be an expert but the chaotic complexity of India really fascinates me.