Without God there can be no moral society

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

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[–]YJaewedwqewqClerical Fascist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Anti-theism is the common thread (or one of them, I should say) behind many disgusting and genocidal/omnicidal regimes and ideologies throughout history. It's the heart of liberalism, Marxism, laissez-faire/anarcho capitalism, and it's no surprise that many of the same people that espoused such beliefs in history (look at Marx or Stalin themselves, or a lot of French philosophers/psychologists that were strongly liberal) were often pedos or sodomites (or both!) or carried other extremely perverse and disgusting ideas.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

laissez-faire/anarcho capitalism

That's the exact opposite of Marxism and "liberal"ism. I actually don't know of too many who are atheists besides Ayn Rand, and she was more of a philosopher than a political theorist. And a pretty hard-hearted one too.

were often pedos or sodomites (or both!) or carried other extremely perverse and disgusting ideas.

That's actually more common in famous people as a group for whatever reason. I suspect they become noticeable as an indirect consequence of having an abnormal brain, and if it's atypical in one area it's likely to be so in others as well. There's also the fact that they can get away with crime more easily, so they may turn to preying on children because they know they're vulnerable and an easy target.

[–]YJaewedwqewqClerical Fascist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's the exact opposite of Marxism and "liberal"ism.

It's not Marxism or liberalism per se, it's a third group that is related and shares some ideas. Should've made that more clear.

I actually don't know of too many who are atheists besides Ayn Rand, and she was more of a philosopher than a political theorist.

I'm not sure if they were personally atheist in many cases, but a lot of them by virtue of anarchism/minarchism want societies that cannot hold any values or standards by virtue of being ungoverned and unmanaged (or mostly so in a minarchist state)

That's actually more common in famous people as a group for whatever reason. I suspect they become noticeable as an indirect consequence of having an abnormal brain, and if it's atypical in one area it's likely to be so in others as well. There's also the fact that they can get away with crime more easily, so they may turn to preying on children because they know they're vulnerable and an easy target.

This is almost certainly true, thanks for pointing this out. Famous/high status people are often fucked up in some way or another. I notice a trend with specifically leftist philosophers and a pre-occupation with lowering/eliminating the age of cosnent, however.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's not Marxism or liberalism per se, it's a third group that is related and shares some ideas. Should've made that more clear.

Aren't they opposite of each other?

I'm not sure if they were personally atheist in many cases, but a lot of them by virtue of anarchism/minarchism want societies that cannot hold any values or standards by virtue of being ungoverned and unmanaged (or mostly so in a minarchist state)

Like most humans you seem to be having trouble separating the concept of morality with legislation. Minimal legislation does not mean minimal morality and no values, that is a big conclusion to jump to. Morality will always continue to exist on a personal basis, the only difference being that everyone doesn't have to bend to fit the specific morality of the rulers. Most people will still almost certainly play bandwagon and follow the leader, I just don't see why we have to oppress dissidents other than it's our wild tribal nature and we get a high from it.

I notice a trend with specifically leftist philosophers and a pre-occupation with lowering/eliminating the age of cosnent, however.

Because the right wing ones usually want to appear to have strict morals, so they're not going to admit to it to save their life. But they are caught in it just as often.

[–]YJaewedwqewqClerical Fascist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Aren't they opposite of each other?

They are sort of opposites, but their end affect is the same, much like the artificial divide between capitalism and communism. Marxism seeks to make everyone entirely equal, Anarcho-capitalism de facto makes everyone equal by eliminating the state. Equality is impossible, though, so in both cases, a heirarchy forms.

Like most humans you seem to be having trouble separating the concept of morality with legislation. Minimal legislation does not mean minimal morality and no values, that is a big conclusion to jump to. Morality will always continue to exist on a personal basis, the only difference being that everyone doesn't have to bend to fit the specific morality of the rulers. Most people will still almost certainly play bandwagon and follow the leader, I just don't see why we have to oppress dissidents other than it's our wild tribal nature and we get a high from it.

Legislating morality makes it much easier to enforce. Vigilantism is flawed due to human perception and mob mentality, and can't effectively regulate something long term. Lynch mobs are short, spring-up events that undoubtedly also would result in lots of separate issues.

The state is an unfeeling, organized mob. It's like an octopus, the individual arms are connected by a greater whole, and those motile arms can do what they please within the extents the body allows them.

The state is in the unique position of having lots of power and bureaucracy on its side, which unorganized mobs simply cannot achieve properly. This bureaucracy allows fairness and a precise system of dealing with degeneracy and the ability to snuff out issues before they arise (i.e. shutting down borders or launching military expeditions to snuff out drugs before they become a problem) and codeified laws allow a fair but effective method of determining who/what is an issue and how to deal with issues in a way that is most effective.

Because the right wing ones usually want to appear to have strict morals, so they're not going to admit to it to save their life. But they are caught in it just as often.

That's a good point, but Right Wing groups also police themselves a lot more. Look at the Night of the Long Knives: It may have mostly been a power move and political chess turn at heart, but eliminated degenerates like Ernst Röhm (who was a sodomite and pedophile) as well.

In general, all political movements could benefit from a sort of commisariate to weed out degeneracy and corruption. To balance such an organization would be difficult, as would havign them police themselves, but it's always an ideal to work towards.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Legislating morality makes it much easier to enforce.

It shouldn't be enforced.

The state is in the unique position of having lots of power and bureaucracy on its side,

Like that's a good thing.

which unorganized mobs simply cannot achieve properly.

They shouldn't do it either.

This bureaucracy allows fairness and a precise system of dealing with degeneracy and the ability to snuff out issues before they arise (i.e. shutting down borders or launching military expeditions to snuff out drugs before they become a problem) and codeified laws allow a fair but effective method of determining who/what is an issue and how to deal with issues in a way that is most effective.

So basically totalitarianism.

That's a good point, but Right Wing groups also police themselves a lot more. Look at the Night of the Long Knives: It may have mostly been a power move and political chess turn at heart, but eliminated degenerates like Ernst Röhm (who was a sodomite and pedophile) as well.

Left Wing groups also purge themselves. For example Obama is now a Nazi according to them, for not being extreme enough.

In general, all political movements could benefit from a sort of commisariate to weed out degeneracy and corruption.

Corruption for sure, but for some reason the word "degeneracy" almost never refers to anything that's actually bad.

To balance such an organization would be difficult, as would havign them police themselves, but it's always an ideal to work towards.

Or we can just admit that it doesn't work and leave people alone. But no, the imaginary collective can't have that.