Was/is the United States a "Christian nation founded on Christian values"?

submitted by la_cues from self.debatealtright

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[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

North America was settled and founded by christian religious extremists (quakers, etc) who valued "religious freedom" compared to Anglican and other predominant christian denominations in Europe. Which, at that time, mostly had state-sanctioned religious sects and morals. And this "religious freedom" is reflected in the Constitution for that reason, in the context of the time

However, they didn't enshrine other important things like "whites only" or "christians only" - but probably because they simply could never conceive of the idea that such "tolerances" could ever be allowed. Even Charles Pinckney, the last surviving member of of the signing of the Constitution at the time, said on black citizenship

I was the only member of that body that ever submitted the plan of a constitution completely drawn in articles and sections; and this having been done at a very early state of their proceedings, the article on which now so much stress is laid, and on the meaning of which the whole of this question is made to turn, and which is in these words: "the citizens of each State shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities in every State," having been made by me, it is supposed I must know, or perfectly recollect, what I meant by it. In answer, I say, that, at the time I drew that constitution, I perfectly knew that there did not then exist such a thing in the Union as a black or colored citizen, nor could I then have conceived it possible such a thing could have ever existed in it; nor, notwithstanding all that has been said on the subject, do I now believe one does exist in it.

Given the comparatively "extreme" nature of this statement in modern times, we can reasonably infer that the founders very clearly envisioned the US to be an exclusively white, christian nation. As to why they did not say this explicitly in the constitution, no one can say for sure - but we know they would find this extremely regrettable now

Also - "Conceived in White Nationalism" - AltHype

I also don't personally identify as christian, FTR

[–]la_cues[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Good reply. Absolutely ridiculous to say it's not conceivable that these people could be considered or treated as people.

A side note, as someone who feels very much in line with Quaker values it's funny to see them described as extreme, although I get what you mean.

From what I recall, Quakers were early to publicly decry slavery and restrictions on women, and lift discrimination in their communities.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Quakers also played a big and regrettable role in basically tricking whites in major cities into renting to blacks in the 50's and 60's. The places where they did this are now wastelands where black crime is the rule and social dysfunction reigns. Thanks Quakers! (I actually like quakers mostly but they are basically SJW's with bibles.)

E. Michael Jones has some good articles on quaker blockbusting if you're interested.

You mention their opposition to restrictions on women though and I wanted to ask you whether you think lifting those restrictions has been a benefit or a loss to society in general.

[–]la_cues[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Undoubtedly.

All people equal, all people have the light of God/spirit within them. Enlightenment is possible for all.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OK so explain to me how it's undoubtedly been a benefit to society.