Have Black people ever said "thank you" for all the nice things White people gave to them?

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yes. My grandfather's family home and lifestyle growing up was not considered the norm. However, despite his situation being uncommon, I don't believe that it should be discounted because it proves that not even all white people were able to take advantage of everything on his list. There were still places that weren't privy to the modernities of most 1950s homes, and it's not necessarily because they weren't areas with industrious people.

His original comment:

Do you think if African slaves were dropped in the middle of an American forest, they would have came up with Democracy, roads, running water and electricity, two story buildings, farms, an army that uses muskets and cannons instead of spears, a public school system and police department?

Police departments, public education, electricity, and running water as we know it were not things to be taken advantage of during the era of slavery within the US. Muskets and cannons don't make for much appreciation when you're the cannon fodder. It doesn't matter if you're shitting in a bush or an outhouse if you're not sure if you'll even be able to eat from day to day to create said shit. They didn't come here for opportunity, they came here because they were made to, and weren't promised any of those things for themselves or their ancestors down the line. I would say they sort of paid for the opportunities they eventually got.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

They didn't come here for opportunity, they came here because they were made to, and weren't promised any of those things for themselves or their ancestors down the line.

You're missing the point. Those opportunities would not have came to them unless they were the lucky ones sent to the U.S.

Remember, the slave trade had never been outlawed by Africans, and it was even possible much worse fates existed for them had they actually stayed. For example, look at the slaves who ended up in Brazil, Jamaica or Haiti? Even when they now control the country, do you think they're prosperous? The answer is no, and in many cases, they don't even have the basic necessities I pointed out, existed in the U.S since the beginning.

Or look in actual Africa, where captured slaves who didn't get on the ships where just used for human sacrifice rituals. Getting their heads chopped off or even eaten. Had you told the Black slaves in America what life was like around the rest of the world, they would beg to not be sent back.

And vice versa exists too. Would you rather be a slave in the Congo, or a slave in New York City?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

When you live in a place that didn't have those "necessities" in the first place, you don't really know or understand what you're missing out on. We can say what we would have chosen, but we can't exactly ask them because they're long since toast. There's probably something to be said about having a chance to die in your own land among the people there, versus dying around an unfamiliar people treated worse than sentient oxen. You can look at their culture within Africa during that time and say that it's barbaric, I won't argue. I don't know what the dynamics were, if they were willing human sacrifices, if everything was entrenched in fear or a sense of duty, that's something that would require not only research but an examination of the bazillion different tribal practices of the specific tribes that came over to the US.

Would you rather be a slave in the Congo, or a slave in New York City?

New York City wasn't settled until 1624, and looked vastly different than it does now. It's also cold as fuck, and my spoiled ass is very used to a warmer climate that isn't inundated with snow. If you're asking me personally, is there a "neither" option? If you're asking a hypothetical slave from that era, who knows.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

When you live in a place that didn't have those "necessities" in the first place, you don't really know or understand what you're missing out on. We can say what we would have chosen, but we can't exactly ask them because they're long since toast. There's probably something to be said about having a chance to die in your own land among the people there, versus dying around an unfamiliar people treated worse than sentient oxen. You can look at their culture within Africa during that time and say that it's barbaric, I won't argue. I don't know what the dynamics were, if they were willing human sacrifices, if everything was entrenched in fear or a sense of duty, that's something that would require not only research but an examination of the bazillion different tribal practices of the specific tribes that came over to the US.

Blacks continue to move to the U.S and other Western countries by the millions. Some are so desperate, they build dinghy rafts and float their way to Europe hoping a country picks them up.

It's not a debate anymore. If Blacks didn't feel like they were missing out, why come at all? Why not have Africa send a ship to every nation and take back their slave descendants? The answer is simple: they wont go back because they know life is better here and they could never rebuild the same societies without a white person to help guide them.

New York City wasn't settled until 1624, and looked vastly different than it does now. It's also cold as fuck, and my spoiled ass is very used to a warmer climate that isn't inundated with snow. If you're asking me personally, is there a "neither" option? If you're asking a hypothetical slave from that era, who knows.

How do you think New York City was settled at all and why do people live there? Obviously it took Europeans to transform it into the high tech society it is now. But whereas NYC always existed on that path to prosperity, there is no evidence Congo was ever going to see better living conditions.

In fact, even Muhammad Ali commented on what life was like in the Congo when he travelled there for a boxing match and admitted his great grandparents were better off being slaves taken to America, than staying behind.

https://quotepark.com/quotes/1761571-dinesh-dsouza-better-off-the-point-is-illustrated-by-the-great/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ok, you and I are not arguing the same points here or there are some issues that are being missed in interpretation. I'm trying to get the point to you that yes,they have advantages now, but those advantages didn't come for free (IF they're direct descendants of US slaves). We are ALL reaping the benefits of our ancestors, because we sure to shit didn't do any of those things to build society, they did. We have just built up from there, and arguably fucking ruined a lot of things along the way too.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, they had advantages the minute they were born or stepped on U.S soil.

Look at the life expectancy as proof. Child mortality is still a huge issue in Africa, but breeding and keeping Slaves alive in the U.S was seen as important.

I don't care about reaping benefits of our ancestors. You know I'm leaving behind the exact same thing when my time on Earth is over right? I pay taxes so my country has money to not fall apart or become the next South Africa or Brazil. That's nothing special. What matters though is that Europeans are needed to keep any 1st world society functioning at all. And since they were in the U.S from the beginning, the non-white races living next to them were considered passengers on this free ride and always had benefits.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Paying taxes is not enough to keep a country stabilized. That's pretty much the bare minimum contribution. If we're measuring in actual contribution towards society and towards the future of the country, aside from taxes and general wageslaving to keep everything moving, the majority of us aren't making discoveries or adding anything except for another unit that takes up space.

You're also dismissing Asian societies that managed to create stable first world civilizations that are not only mostly racially homogeneous (Japan is 98%), but non-white. Notice their birth rates are abysmal too.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Paying taxes is not enough to keep a country stabilized. That's pretty much the bare minimum contribution.

Taxes are absolutely crucial in every emergency scenario. Using Brazil as an example, the President admitted their government is all out of money, which is devastating news for a country that was already dirt poor before Covid hit them, and now the people who need the most help are shit out of luck.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/brazilian-president-says-his-country-is-broke-heres-why-11609949590

So I would say my contributions matter a lot. Going into outer space or building robots is cool, but as long as these Scientists live in my country, they're still benefitting from a society that can bail them out.

You're also dismissing Asian societies that managed to create stable first world civilizations that are not only mostly racially homogeneous (Japan is 98%), but non-white. Notice their birth rates are abysmal too.

I don't live in Asian societies. Good for them though, and my advice would be the same. If Asians enjoy 1st world status, then don't replace them with any other group who can't do it.