Slavs aren't white.

submitted by MisterQ from self.debatealtright

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Yeah I thought the Franklin quotes would come up. They're odd and probably suggest a confusion on Franklin's own part or a misunderstanding of what he was trying to say. He was well travelled but where did he get the idea that Germans were 'tawny'? The fact remains that Franklin aside in a general sense the idea of who was White in America always meant broadly European. There was definitely Anglo chauvinism in America -- rightly so too! -- but this idea that they didn't consider non-Anglo Europeans White is really only an idea that postmodernist 'race is a social construct' types believe. The facts on the ground not the musings of Franklin prove that.

but to say that originally the US wasn't founded as an Anglo-Saxon country, is wrong.

Didn't argue it wasn't. That doesn't mean the people at the time didn't consider other Europeans as fellow Whites which is the entire point I'm trying to make.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Have you considered that maybe they were tawny?

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Germans? One of the fairest of all European people? No I can't say I have considered the fact that a population could radically change in appearance in a little over 200 years. Have you considered that maybe Franklin was a major autist who was talking out of his ass? (He also said weird things about Swedes as well.)

The whole context of the quote in question is him talking about his distaste for non-Anglo Europeans which strikes me as the same brand of ridiculous spergery as the OP is presenting.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I agree with you. I think Franklin was talking out of his ass. He was just grasping at straws to separate the island anglo from the more continental and more rural Germanic anglo.

One thing that might have brought about the 'tawney' description was the fact that Germans liked to harvest and exercise in the nude and generally soak up the sun when it wasn't winter. You can see some of this in German propaganda films.

nsfw 1

sfw 2

nsfw 3

I think a lot of Brits like Franklin got off on the fact they didn't have to farm and do physical labor anymore because they'd figured out how to get other people to do that through specialization and world commerce. It was like a brag. I see this from a lot of modern protestant pro capitalism whites as well that have an island anglo background. I suspicion that's why the Jew found England easier to take over ideologically. Germans on the other hand loved work and still do and for the most part don't find physical labor (that beautifies and conserves the land) degrading. Especially outdoor farming and building labor.

White people do tan by the way. The whole 'mayo skin' 'burning skin' is a gas lighting technique to demoralize whites and make them feel inferior to blacks and browns. Most whites 'burn' because of seedoil consumption and sedentary indoor lifestyles.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Another possibility is that tawney jews called themselves germans, swedes etc

I still think it is possible that we were darker just a few centuries ago, Evolution goes super quick, especially when there is a cultural push towards something.
Also think of this, the population has completely exploded in the past 200 years alone with multiple genocides and wars. It is very possible that our current population is not a simple 1:1 scaling of the population 200 years ago. It's possible that as few as 5% of the population 200 years ago represent 90% of the population today and that white skin color was common in those 5%.

We often project our own reality, thoughts and so on back onto the past, but we can't just do that.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're just weirdly grasping at straws now. Romans over a thousand years ago described Germanic people as blue eyed, fair and blonde. This isn't a new occurrence and they didn't suddenly become dark 200 years ago only somehow to morph into a fair nation in the last 200 years or so. That's absurd.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Another possibility is that tawney jews called themselves germans, swedes etc

Good point but was there really a threat of 'tawney' Jews flooding into the country in 1790? If Franklin didn't want Jews you'd think he would have just said 'jews'. There was far easier to be nativist and to counter Jews at that point in history.

Also think of this, the population has completely exploded in the past 200 years alone with multiple genocides and wars

The non white population you mean. Whites have been on a steady decline the last 80 years or so. You'd think the genocide and wars would have kept the world wide pop more manageable but alas it has not.

It is very possible that our current population is not a simple 1:1 scaling of the population 200 years ago.

Obviously.

It's possible that as few as 5% of the population 200 years ago represent 90% of the population today and that white skin color was common in those 5%.

I'm not really sure exactly what you are saying here. These numbers are pretty clearly tracked historically. It's hasn't changed that drastically but yes there have been demographic shifts.

We often project our own reality, thoughts and so on back onto the past, but we can't just do that.

This is true.

Side note check out the comment I just left in the Hart Cellar thread. It's very related to our conversation.

https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/81vh/a_misconception_i_see_on_the_alt_right_about_the/ty9x?context=3

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The non white population you mean. Whites have been on a steady decline the last 80 years or so. You'd think the genocide and wars would have kept the world wide pop more manageable but alas it has not.

The white population has exploded. Denmark went from like 0.5-1 million to 5-6 million. It's possible that say a subset, say 50k out of the 500k exploded to 4 million, while the other 450k exploded to 1-2 million danes. Everyone danish, just slightly different phenotypes, temperament, morals, height, musculature, eyes, immune system etc.

This is of course conjecture, nothing proven or even substantiated by any evidence.

I'm not really sure exactly what you are saying here. These numbers are pretty clearly tracked historically. It's hasn't changed that drastically but yes there have been demographic shifts.

Its gradual. I remember when I first saw American television and people called themselves "white" lol. They were like muds. I realized that everything is relative and now I don't see it anymore because I've become used to it.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The white population has exploded

Not as a percentage of world population. Unless you call latin america white.

[–]TheJamesRocket 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The white population has exploded. Denmark went from like 0.5-1 million to 5-6 million.

Hmm? Denmarks population in 1939 was 3.8 million. Its population in 2020 was 5.8 million.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes now go back 200-300 years. The population has been stagnant/reducing since the 70's and only increasing due to immigration.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://danmarkshistorien.lex.dk/Befolkningen_-_Danmark_i_tal

[–]TheJamesRocket 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That chart agrees with my numbers.

Yes now go back 200-300 years. The population has been stagnant/reducing since the 70's and only increasing due to immigration.

Yes, but send_nasty_stuff said the last 80 years.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Palatinate is in Southern Germany, those were the Germans he was complaining about in Pennsylvania, Southern Germany is a lot less Germanic than Northern Germany and England,

    Who knows maybe he was just resentful about the Hessian involvement in the War Of Independence and that prejudiced his views.

    I just mentioned Benjamin Franklin's view to reinforce my point as how America was originally build to be an England without Kings, and make no mistake, efforts to keep that way existed for until very recently,

    I'm glad they failed at that and the project became more expansive. I think it was better more as a pan-European experiment rather than a continental wide New England.

    Funnily enough to counter your point and Franklin's jaundiced opinions I think in the census the highest level of self-identified ancestry in America today is those awful swarthy Germans he so despised. I could be wrong and will look that up but I'm pretty sure it's true.