Hitler is ok. (actually he's really cool)

submitted by send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist from self.debatealtright

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[–]nordmannenLegionnaire 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Germany was left in ruin because it was bombed in campaigns organized to completely eradicate cities, like Hamburg, Dresden, and especially Königsberg, which literally doesn't exist anymore. Hitler did not do that, the Soviets and the Allies did. There was also no ethnic balance in Europe otherwise WW2 wouldn't have happened, come on now.

Also, Corneliu Codreanu>Mussolini>Franco

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

The difference is he kept Germany fighting, even when the odds of any victory was 0. Japan was in the exact same position, where nuclear bombs would have kept falling until they came to the peace table. It would be Tojo's fault if a 3rd or 4th nuke had fallen if he gave orders to keep fighting instead of surrender.

There was also no ethnic balance in Europe otherwise WW2 wouldn't have happened, come on now.

I'm unaware of what ethnic issues existed in Spain or Italy. Spain fought a civil war, but it's not like they had to invade France and the rest of Europe to keep the majority of Spain as Spanish.

Mussolini was definitely Imperialist with his Africa campaigns, but it had less to do with racial conflicts in his own country and more to do with empire building.

[–]nordmannenLegionnaire 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I understand now. However, Italy and Spain also didn't have large diaspora populations scattered across Europe like Germany. Arguably Italy had some, but large amounts of Germans were in foreign lands and, in the case of countries like Poland and Czechoslovakia, were being persecuted. These are not issues Spain ever had to face, so the comparison is not fair.

Also, I'm not really sure if surrendering would have mattered. The depopulation of Germans in eastern Europe happened after ww2 anyway, and plenty of lands were demographically replaced after Germany had been neutralized. If for some reason you believe things would have been easier if the Nazis surrendered earlier, there is really no proof of that. Nothing stopped the RAF from decimating cities with the intention of burning out the German identity. Nothing stopped the Russians from ethnic cleansing Prussia. That was a war waged to pacify the Germans, and they could have bent over and taken it or fought to the end, the result would be the same.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I understand now. However, Italy and Spain also didn't have large diaspora populations scattered across Europe like Germany. Arguably Italy had some, but large amounts of Germans were in foreign lands and, in the case of countries like Poland and Czechoslovakia, were being persecuted. These are not issues Spain ever had to face, so the comparison is not fair.

What are Germans doing in foreign countries, and why not return home if they didn't like being there? If Hitler wanted to unite them, he already had other means of doing so, like Austria voting to unite with Germany. But if you're going to bomb every country because one of your guys happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time then no, that's BS.

If for some reason you believe things would have been easier if the Nazis surrendered earlier, there is really no proof of that.

Churchill at least wanted to go to war with the Soviets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable

It makes no sense why would the Allies waste their resources on a country that's already beaten, when they can move on with the next agenda.

If anything, Germany surrendering after 5 years fucked that up. Everyone was exhausted by that point, and the Soviets now had control of several Eastern European countries, including half of Germany.

[–]nordmannenLegionnaire 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Are you serious? Some of it was because of Versailles, some of it was because of the HRE, frankly by 1933 it didn't matter, these were populations that existed for hundreds of years and were as tied to their land as the countries that ruled over them. Was it Germany's fault that Versailles cut away large amounts of Germans from their country? Was it Germany's fault that the collapse of Austro-Hungary didn't lead to an immediate plebiscite and/or mass exodus? I refuse to believe this is a real argument.

Capitalists will always turn on their allies whenever the time is right, nothing is new or surprising there. It doesn't change the fact that the RAF bombed with the intention to remove cultural identity. Explain why they leveled Königsberg, and why no city, even Leningrad, did not receive a similar treatment.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you serious? Some of it was because of Versailles, some of it was because of the HRE, frankly by 1933 it didn't matter, these were populations that existed for hundreds of years and were as tied to their land as the countries that ruled over them. Was it Germany's fault that Versailles cut away large amounts of Germans from their country? Was it Germany's fault that the collapse of Austro-Hungary didn't lead to an immediate plebiscite and/or mass exodus? I refuse to believe this is a real argument.

You need to be pragmatic. Borders change all the time, and as long as an actual German homeland exists, they would have infinitely been better off moving back there than being a minority somewhere else. Living somewhere for a hundred years is not an excuse.

Ever heard of magic dirt? Germany only exists because ethnic Germans live together.

Capitalists will always turn on their allies whenever the time is right, nothing is new or surprising there.

Then Germany surrendering would have made that a reality much sooner, rather than later.

Explain why they leveled Königsberg, and why no city, even Leningrad, did not receive a similar treatment.

Because every side back then was ruthless? I never claimed otherwise.

What I don't claim is Britain would waste their bombs on a country that has already surrendered to them. A new German leader would have been installed and ironically enough, they would be sent to fight Russia anyway as part of a new Western Coalition. Missed opportunity if you ask me.