you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yet still, correct me if I'm wrong, many Christians still follow the old testament.

Again Protestants have tended to look more to that book for instruction which is why you have people springing up in the 17th century in England and elsewhere with names like 'Ezekiel' and 'Zedekiah' and so forth but the orthodox interpretation of the OT is complex and it's not at all taken as a prescriptive book of morals in its whole. There's incest, mass slaughter, rape, polygamy and whole raft of other things in the OT that no Catholic or Orthodox Christian subscribes to.

From my research 'chosen people' comes from the Book of Deuteronomy which was composed in Jerusalem in the 7th century BCE. This belief could well have been common amongst them before this interpretation.

Yes see dual covenant theology which is the basis for things like Christian Zionism. It's a heresy and no Catholic -- Nostra Aetate notwithstanding -- can agree with the idea that the people of the Holy Covenant aren't Christians alone. In Orthodox and Catholic teaching the 'Chosen People' are literally Christians. It's called in Covenant Theology supersessionism and the idea is that the covenant of the OT has been superseded by Christ's covenant with Christians. In fact there are entire debates in the New Testament including ones between Jesus Himself where he rebukes his disciples for attempting to make the faith one meant only for Jews. It's actually an ongoing debate in the NT and a source of conflict which was ultimately solved until the arrival of Protestantism 1600 years after the fact.

Christianity wasn't created to make the Jews the 'Chosen' in fact it's the opposite.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

In fact there are entire debates in the New Testament including ones between Jesus Himself where he rebukes his disciples for attempting to make the faith one meant only for Jews.

Would you mind sharing those verses? Did you verify the translations?

Note in Christianity jews are Christians. You cannot be a jew and not be a Christian.
In Denmark we have jyder, fynboer, sjællændere. You cannot be a jyde without being a Dane. If you are not a Dane, then you are not a jyde.
The same logic applies to Christians. If you are not a Christian, you cannot be a jew.

Those that then call themselves jews against the word of God are obviously heretics, deceivers, liars, children of the devil, who is the father of all lies.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I actually think we're saying the same thing but just in a different way. I'm saying the Chosen are Christians and you are too but you're just wording it differently and saying that means they're the real Jews. Is that correct? If so I think we're kind of basically agreeing I'd just put it in different terms.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, the Chosen are Christians. Christians are the followers of Jesus. Israel is the promised land, the promised Race, the promised people. Through Jacob is the promise inherited.
Christians inherit the promise of God.

Judeans/jews was one tribe of Israel. Jesus came for them (and many others) and they heard him. All Judeans heard the voice of Christ and are hence called Christians today. Liars, who weren't Judeans, that didn't hear the voice of Christ (because Jesus did not come for them) but lived in Judea called themselves Judeans/jews and made a new religion called Judaism.

All Christians are the Chosen. Fake jews that believe in Judaism are not jews nor Chosen.

I believe we are saying the same thing too just in different terms. I don't mean to say that All Christians = real jews, but all real jews are Christians.

Christianity came before Judaism

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Christianity came before Judaism

Agreed. Necessarily within the logic of Christian theology the faith of Abraham, David and Moses MUST be the same as Christ. It's all Christianity or what would become known as Christianity just in different forms. Jews and bad detractors of Christianity always make the mistake of saying that Moses and others were practicing 'Judaism' which doesn't make any sense within a Christian framework.

[–]FrenologistSaving the World 1 Cranial Exam at a Time 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's a lot more to get into if we want to unravel the origins of the Jews and/or Israelis. I think its best to go back to the sons of Noah and look at the areas they were promised by, "God." The Table of Nations is a good place to start. http://www.ldolphin.org/ntable.html

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

CHosen through a spiritual convenant with Christ.

What is your take on Jews being Edomites?

[–]FrenologistSaving the World 1 Cranial Exam at a Time 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Edomites were almost certainly descendants of Shem the same as Hebrews and Ishmaelites.