What's the vibe among American conservatives?

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

What are their plans going forward? They seem to be getting more conscious of the disaster that awaits them but what are they doing for it?

Are they still circling the corpse of the GOP and putting their hopes on the next election? Or, are they organizing and forming groups in private. The thing is, have they lost faith in GOP or are they still enslaved to the republican plantation?

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[–]Blackbrownfreestuff 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

Plans:

1 - Reduce black unemployment

2 - Military and financial support for Israel

3 - Empower large corporations and wealthy people to hate white people

4 - Slowly concede gun rights to elected republicans

5 - Grandstand about abortion

6 - Prove that Democrats are the real racists

7 - Protect you from "socialism"

Pretty solid platform that boomers will love. Yes, they are circling the corpse of the GOP, while the democrats solidify themselves as the explicit party for all non-whites and their allies.

Edit:

8 - Release black super predators from prison

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I mean average conservative minded people. Not the GOP

[–]Blackbrownfreestuff 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think this list still applies. The average conservative is still stuck on the republican plantation.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think a good chunk of them broke away after this stolen election. We won't see the fruit of that break up for a few more months though. It takes time for people reformulate their political platforms and alliances. People are still in shock and trying to figure out what happen.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

The average American conservative is the quintessential liberal. A bourgeois individualist who just wants to be "left alone". The problem is that politics isn't about "leaving people alone". It's about the will to power and forcing your ideology on everyone else. You're either the one doing the forcing or you're the one being forced. There is no third option. Leftists understand that, conservatives don't. That's why they always lose.

[–]grocerymannn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Marx was right about power dynamics.

[–]SoylentCapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

will to power

You're using this concept incorrectly.

https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/6pkh/nietzscheanism_is_right_wing_christianity/ppxj

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Nietzsche actually never defined it. It's open to interpretation, like most of his concepts.

[–]SoylentCapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's open to interpretation

Only to an extent, from the chapter I mentioned it's made clear it's about a self-motivating drive. Not power over other people. It's a short chapter if you haven't read it, see for yourself.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's been years since I've read it.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Leftists understand that,

As do fascists. (which is why I consider myself a fascist.)

[–]Oingo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To be honest, they have no plans. They don't really have a set of policies to rally around, and the most apt phrase for their motives might be "A vague inconsistent idea of civic nationalism".
They tend to be against the modernization of energy; they abhor ethnic self-determination, and they're against socialist policies such as universal healthcare and minimum wage.

They support gun rights; breaking up big businesses; Deregulating said businesses; Abortion, and supporting Israel.

Basically they're an unappealing and alienating mish mash of neoliberalism and libertarianism, headed by a patchwork of grifters looking to make a quick buck through snarky commentary and owning liberals.

[–]AidsVictim69 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The bad news, is that as you say they are an ideologically confused and self harming mess. American conservatism is probably the best example of false consciousness around in the West.

The good news is that there's an increasingly large segment of conservatives who are realizing how fake and gay the modern system is and are more open new ideological paradigms than they have been in a generation or two.

[–]Girondin 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Their is definitely a massive shift going on. Prominent / up-and-coming Intellectuals like Ryan Girdusky, Pedro Gonzalez, Darren Beatie, Hazony, Yarvin, Caldwell are of a different caliber then conservatism of the 2010s, I don't think we had a comparable group in conservatism since the 1990s (Sobran, Pat Buchanan, Coulter, Sam Francis, Brimelow, Derbyshire). Conservatism has shifted to a stronger populist message.

Politically the message has shifted, Marco Rubio is trying to be more of a populist and dis-regarding free market priors. Josh Hawley is going for populist policies like raising the minimum wage, protectionism, immigration.

Weather this will amount to anything positive, The overton window is shifting.

[–]LetssavethefirsworldReturn to Jesus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The "average conservative" hates the GOP. I read a survey somewhere that said 55% of Republicans disapprove of their own party.

The problem is it doesn't matter. They're too afraid of infighting because they know a 5% depression in turnout will kill Rs forever. Rs will lose the Senate for a long time (see GA) and never advance legislation everyone can agree on (abortion, taxes, deregulation) that's why the GOP is doomed

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (45 children)

One of the Obamas wrote in their book that they were shocked with how anti-hispanic the Republican Party is. They believe GOP would have been unstoppable if they didn't make an effort to exclude them, while also being able to push for social conservative policies (i.e abortion/anti-gay marriage etc).

I'm partially inclined to believe them. Republicans could have had their own Bolsonaro-esque victory if they had chosen a Spanish speaker like Jeb Bush to lead them. Doubling down on White identarian politics in a country that is bordering 50% white is choosing the worst of both worlds. Might as well form a race alliance and get devout brown or light-skinned Catholics on your side, instead of losing them forever to the Democrats that don't even see value in them other than receiving votes.

[–][deleted]  (32 children)

[deleted]

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

    Republicans won't even mention white people.

    They have dogwhistles, which are the same thing.

    In fact, a very certain U.S President explicitly mentions why they don't say "white"

    Nixon's advisers recognized that they could not appeal directly to voters on issues of white supremacy or racism. White House Chief of Staff H. R. Haldeman noted that Nixon "emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks. The key is to devise a system that recognized this while not appearing to".[46] With the aid of Harry Dent and South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond, who had switched to the Republican Party in 1964, Nixon ran his 1968 campaign on states' rights and "law and order". Liberal Northern Democrats accused Nixon of pandering to Southern whites, especially with regard to his "states' rights" and "law and order" positions, which were widely understood by black leaders to symbolize Southern resistance to civil rights.[47] This tactic was described in 2007 by David Greenberg in Slate as "dog-whistle politics".[48] According to an article in The American Conservative, Nixon adviser and speechwriter Pat Buchanan disputed this characterization.[49]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy#Roots_(1963%E2%80%931972)

    That's because Democrat/Republican is kayfabe.

    They're both terrible, but the Republican strategy of calling non-white countries shitholes or Mexicans as rapists come across as political suicide. Just think. If they're bad at attracting Whites to their party, why go 2x harder and scare off most non-white voters in the process? They should have just swallowed their pride and form their own multicult party that can at least push a social conservative agenda.

    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    the Republican strategy of calling non-white countries shitholes or Mexicans as rapists come across as political suicide

    These statements caused huge jumps in Trump's popularity.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    And now he's out of office while serving only one term...

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    The biggest reason for that was the fact that he followed Kushner's lead (supposedly) and adopted a typical "anti-racist" Republican platform. He dropped all of the stuff that won him the election in 2016, and instead opted to run on letting blacks out of prison and increasing legal immigration. He did nothing about the BLM riots, he did nothing about election security, and he did next to nothing in terms of economic COVID relief for normal people. For the most part, he gave up even the dog whistles. It's like he did everything he could to throw the election.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    So the Republican expectation was they could expect to win all future elections using racism, even though stuff like legal immigration or civil rights represented a culture that was against that? Unless his second term was going to cut Hart-Celler into pieces and begin mass deportations, it was suicide of the highest order.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      It's a good thing they waited 4 years to do it and not back in 2016, when Hillary claimed the same thing.

      It's almost like both sides throw tantrums when they see results they don't like.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Ah yes, the magical evidence that will explain how all 81 million votes for Biden were fake, and why it only mattered this one time and not every previous election that came before...

        [–][deleted]  (22 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

          No they aren't. A dog-whistle doesn't assert the right of whites to exist and demand we be respected as people. It's slimy way to trick voters without asserting their interests as valid. Your discussion with Nixon anti-black, not necessarily pro white. No one likes niggers so that strategy doesn't even necessarily alienate but blacks

          Your post would imply that Democrats also alienate Black voters but that hasn't been the case for decades...

          And if Republicans don't respect black people or even openly call them "niggers" then why are we surprised they wont ever vote for them in large numbers?

          They won in 2016 with that strategy. How did sucking black cock for four years work?

          Emphasizing short term thinking over long term success is absolutely why GOP faces an identity crisis. Again, a party that you admit doesn't fully reach out to Whites, but now goes on the attack against any black or other non-white voter is pure foolishness. It's like watching the last gasps of a chained up dog, who would rather bark all his energy away, instead of asking why are his chains holding him down in one place.

          They are a multicultural party you retard. I noticed you ignored the 900,000 Wisconsin voters.

          They're not multicultural when every election has them losing the majority of non-white voters by large margins. Only George Bush 2 manage to get the highest share of hispanic voters, at 44%, and unsurprisingly, he still managed a second term. But come Mitt Romney in 2012 and Trump in both 2016 and 2020 and they were still struggling to reach those same heights that Bush 2 had set before them.

          [–][deleted]  (20 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

            ????? This discussion has been about Republicans courting Hispanics, not blacks.

            You're losing me. From the beginning, I said Republicans are caught up in the worst of both worlds. They're a half heart white identarian party, but they double down on punishing minority voters, which naturally includes Black Americans... At one point, yes, Republicans did a do better job with courting Hispanics under Bush 2. But again, the future Republicans never capitalized on this and even went backwards. This is where identity crisis exists today. They can't expect to win in the future if they continue to make appeals to racism.

            WTF are you talking about? Their platform is giving money to minority business owners (but not whites) and letting blacks out of jail. Trump said those things, and it was against the grain with the rest of the party. He then folded and became a pandering negrophile like the rest of them

            If you think money is what black voters only care about that, then once again, it shows why the Republicans are completely out of touch with them. Hell, I recall even Bernie Sanders tried the same thing in both Democratic primaries but actually made worse gains with blacks. See my next paragraph that goes into better detail.

            Yes, they are. Cruz, Rubio, etc. their pandering platforms. They lose minority votes because they don't support as many gibs and aren't as transparently viscous toward whites as the Dems are.

            Again, it's not money they care about. Given the history of the U.S, there's been a constant struggle with how blacks (and other minorities) have been allowed to move up in society, and when you have Republican leaders like Reagan or Nixon go on record with how much they despise or thought little of black Americans, it only served to poison their image.

            [–][deleted]  (18 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

              There is no "punishing" going on, you deluded rat fuck. They let them out of jail with the First Step Act and promised them gibs and preferential treatment.

              You're making the mistake that these are somehow issues they care the most about, while also ignoring they've made several missteps in the process too. For example, even up into Trump's last days in office, he actually rolled back policies meant to protect black Americans from discrimination. This is what I mean when it's not just a "gibs" issue. The U.S history is a lot more complex in regards to how non-whites were treated, and Republicans throwing fuel on the fire is what pushes them even farther from being a big tent party.

              https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/17/17248340/congressional-review-act-auto-loan-discrimination-cfpb

              I already told you they left a ton of white votes on the table. You won't address that because you are a rat fuck who is here to justify Republicans throwing whites under the bus by painting it as a necessary, smart electoral strategy.

              So whose fault is that? You're only proving my point. The Republicans are stuck in denial mode but they lack the self-awareness to change directions. I also never said they must throw whites under the bus. Why or where did this come up in the conversation? No, I said their refusal to become a much more inclusive or multicultural party that shocked even Obama when he saw it as a sure fire thing is why they're now on a death spiral.

              Since you said you're not a GOP/Trump loyalist then why the need to get over defensive by this fact?

              [–][deleted]  (16 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

                Republicans could have had their own Bolsonaro-esque victory if they had chosen a Spanish speaker like Jeb Bush to lead

                What do you think the goals would be for this party of Jeb Bush and the Gringo-Mexican alliance? What do u think their biggest accomplishments would be?

                [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

                Believe it or not, the #1 issue facing Hispanic Americans is actually education.

                https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/02/top-issue-for-hispanics-hint-its-not-immigration/

                Which might not sound interesting at first, but recall that 88% of academic professors lean left.

                https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/5/2/faculty-survey-part-2/

                A hispanic/white alliance could have had the power to change this. For every anti-white professor teaching the next generation to hate themselves, you could have replaced them with a based Juan instead. Which would have been critical for fighting the ongoing culture shift.

                [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

                Damn, whitey really blew it. We could have replaced our tenured white liberal professors with based mexicans. Think of the possibilities!

                [–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

                This guy is the most shameless subversive on this sub

                [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

                I mean, yes? Almost every problem that faces modern society can be attributed to a poorly educated populace.

                -Lack of medical/scientist expertise? Have the government train them in mass instead of importing them (solves the immigration question)

                -Inner city crime and drug trafficking? Warn children of the dangers of substance abuse, and reward them for staying in school, instead of dropping out and becoming drug dealers.

                -The same can be said about teen pregnancy. In fact, studies back this. Brazil rolling out new High Schools has help saw a significant decline in teen pregnancy, which has a huge impact on cognitive intelligence and body health.

                https://www.cgdev.org/blog/build-high-schools-reduce-teen-pregnancy-and-4-other-findings-global-education

                And so forth. That's basically what Asian societies are and I thought the Alt-Right saw them as models?

                [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

                Exactly, with the leadership of Jeb Bush and the support of Mexicans, Republican's could have solved our biggest problems by properly educating the the black and brown masses. But we blew all our tokens on Trump. I was disappointed when Jeb got beat out. I think we were all looking forward to another Bush presidency.

                [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

                IMO, the Bush's biggest faults were their neocon wars. Without the legacies of the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, I'm not sure what their real problem was?

                It's also interesting that education was something Republicans did care about before they focused all their attention on the Middle East.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act

                Bush was also a proponent of getting America back into Space, and even landing the first Men on Mars.

                https://www.nasa.gov/missions/solarsystem/bush_vision.html

                Either way, the Trump Presidency was also a disaster. Leaving office with more dead Americans than 9/11 isn't going to be looked at fondly by future generations. But he would retweet Pepe the frog images, so it was all worth it right? /s

                [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

                Some argue that Bush2 policies contributed to the 2008 financial collapse, patriot act, record number of mexican immigrants, temporary guest worker program for illegal aliens, domestic surveillance, failed hurricane Katrina response, TARP, liberal judicial appointments, Guntanamo bay. "Religion of peace". Other than that, he was a solid president.

                [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

                In retrospect, those issues seem a lot more manageable today, then having to deal with the Democrats induced problems. For example, nothing about Bush's "religion of peace" comment meant America had to be go soft on Islam. Quite the opposite. The country had a disproportionate response when it was first attacked, leading to the other issues you mentioned (patriot act/gitmo etc).

                [–]Blackbrownfreestuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                Yup, like most politicians, he was talking out of both sides of his mouth.

                [–]Pink 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                Almost every problem that faces modern society can be attributed to a poorly educated populace.

                troll

                [–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                Coping about demographics and pretending they have allies in the elites judging by all the magat tweets my buddy sends me.

                Or, are they organizing and forming groups in private.

                There are a limited number of people doing this but honestly I wouldn't consider them conservatives in the American context. Too radical/revolutionary for that, and that's a good thing.

                They seem to be getting more conscious of the disaster that awaits them but what are they doing for it?

                I think there is a significant shift away from urban areas especially with covid and there's a larger amount of gun ownership. There's also a large amount of distrust and disengagement with the mainstream cultural context. This will probably culminate in turning white conservatives into something like Boer conservatives are in SA. Lone farmers, sitting ducks, waiting to get tortured and raped by feral negros.