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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How low could African IQ could be in the 1900s? I'm sorry but anything below 80 just isn't possible.

Why? It's probably still below 80.

At some point there had to be a convergence since economic development has never stopped in these countries and in fact, it continues to rise to this day at a huge pace.

What development? They may have large relative growth today, but it's still quite small in absolute terms. The most developed African countries were run by Whites (Rhodesia) or Arabs (Libya). Ethiopia might have been the most powerful Black-run country, but Ethiopians still have 30%+ Arab admixture.

Plenty of animals have been domesticated for the same time, yet we still don't see Horse civilization or dogs being trained to use computers.

We're not selecting for genius horses/dogs, we've selected for obedience. There are also thermodynamic limits imposed by their diets.

15 points is a hell of a lot to gain instead of these African or Asian people staying the same because of genes.

It's really not that much in the grand scheme of things.

Basically, how will we know there's a ceiling when humans can no longer improve their IQ and how do you prove such a thing?

We've probably reached that ceiling, and you are seeing average IQs in the developed world begin to drop (not just because of demographic replacement).

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Why? It's probably still below 80.

So you think Africans had an IQ of 50 or less in the 1900s? Less than mental retardation? No, that's pure insanity.

What development? They may have large relative growth today, but it's still quite small in absolute terms. The most developed African countries were run by Whites (Rhodesia) or Arabs (Libya). Ethiopia might have been the most powerful Black-run country, but Ethiopians still have 30%+ Arab admixture.

Look, I know you're Far-Right, but this paragraph shows you never even tried to research the opposite of what's going on. Rhodesia is dead and Libya was recently thrown into a civil war. There have been a lot of development and urbanization going on in Africa, especially as foreign investors continue to take risks and look for opportunities. You can see one example right now in Lagos, Nigeria. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWziLixtBEk

We're not selecting for genius horses/dogs, we've selected for obedience. There are also thermodynamic limits imposed by their diets.

So Africans are selecting geniuses over time? Isn't that the entire point why mankind WONT have a ceiling if every generation is getting smarter thanks to better food and education?

It's really not that much in the grand scheme of things.

Keep in mind that's just the average for the continent. More localized studies showed massive gains of 20 IQ points in places like rural Kenya. https://www.samefacts.com/iq-gains-in-rural-kenya/

Regardless, it doesn't have to be a dick measuring contest. Most humans in general are not as smart as Albert Einstein so it's not the above of all reason to live or contribute.

We've probably reached that ceiling, and you are seeing average IQs in the developed world begin to drop (not just because of demographic replacement).

So if there's a ceiling, we should never expect anymore brilliant ideas or success stories? When I go to bed tonight, I will never think about trying to improve my life the next day or think of ways to improve humanity that was never done in the past? That's a bold claim if intelligence was really static.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So you think Africans had an IQ of 50 or less in the 1900s? Less than mental retardation? No, that's pure insanity.

If Sub-Saharans have an average IQ of 75 today, they would have had an average IQ of 60 up to about 1960. That's entirely believable. https://www.amren.com/news/2017/10/morality-racial-differences/

Rhodesia is dead and Libya was recently thrown into a civil war.

These countries were actively destroyed by the Western financial powers because Jews felt threatened.

So Africans are selecting geniuses over time? Isn't that the entire point why mankind WONT have a ceiling if every generation is getting smarter thanks to better food and education?

The Flynn Effect is basically over. Though, if Africans wanted to approximate advanced civilization, they could get there eventually with an intensive eugenics program. If anyone stands to benefit from eugenics, it's Africans.

Most humans in general are not as smart as Albert Einstein so it's not the above of all reason to live or contribute.

Albert Einstein was a fraud and a thief.

So if there's a ceiling, we should never expect anymore brilliant ideas or success stories?

I don't see the connection here. But everything's probably been thought of at some point somewhere, even if it would be new to modern society. Nothing new under the sun and all that.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If Sub-Saharans have an average IQ of 75 today, they would have had an average IQ of 60 up to about 1960. That's entirely believable. https://www.amren.com/news/2017/10/morality-racial-differences/

Having an Average IQ of 60 would not explain why an African country like Botswana has surpassed a European country like Ukraine in GDP per capita. Unless you want to believe most Europeans in the past were below sub-mental retardation levels, there is nothing in science to defend your claims.

These countries were actively destroyed by the Western financial powers because Jews felt threatened.

They destroyed all of Africa and feel threatened by them. To this day, France still pushes BS Colonial taxes on former French colonies that messes with their development. And I haven't even talked about the Western sponsored wars and dictators who continue to oppress African people. So if you're point is Africa is still being meddled with to this day and having their economics thrown in ruin, I completely agree with you. The Elites are stopping Africa from being free.

The Flynn Effect is basically over. Though, if Africans wanted to approximate advanced civilization, they could get there eventually with an intensive eugenics program. If anyone stands to benefit from eugenics, it's Africans.

They're still advancing so Eugenics does not appear to be necessary. And how is the flynn effect over when they're still not done industrializing? In fact, one notable characteristic of Africa is how rural and spread out a lot of their communities are. It's only in more recent times are more Africans moving to the cities and thus the massive gains in IQ is just the beginning for them.

Albert Einstein was a fraud and a thief.

Thanks.

I don't see the connection here. But everything's probably been thought of at some point somewhere, even if it would be new to modern society. Nothing new under the sun and all that.

How do you know "everything's been thought of"? If I had such knowledge, wouldn't you think to make bank off of it? Tell the people working on the next generation of robots or computers to stop because they wont get better. Or tell Steve Jobs that he shouldn't have came up with the iPhone. Those bulky giant headsets from the 1990s was all the future had in store for technology.

Similarly, where is the ceiling for civilization? Our healthcare systems are far from perfect, especially as the Covid pandemic exposed massive weaknesses to how we traditionally run things. Yet nobody wants to be stuck living like this forever, there will always be people who want to push society forward.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Having an Average IQ of 60 would not explain why an African country like Botswana has surpassed a European country like Ukraine in GDP per capita.

The statistics might be misleading with Botswana. It's one of the least population-dense countries in the world, and most of its economy is based around mining/natural resources. Not that GDP is a great way to evaluate a country's standard of living. Ukraine has a similar level of development to the other former Soviet states, all of which suffered with the collapse of the USSR.

How do you know "everything's been thought of"? If I had such knowledge, wouldn't you think to make bank off of it?

That an idea has been thought of somewhere before doesn't mean we have access to it. This is sort of besides the point. The Flynn Effect is a limited phenomenon, where IQ rises some amount due to nutrition and sanitation. It's not the only thing affecting IQ, and IQ doesn't need to rise in order for civilization to advance if IQ is already at a sufficient level.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The statistics might be misleading with Botswana. It's one of the least population-dense countries in the world, and most of its economy is based around mining/natural resources. Not that GDP is a great way to evaluate a country's standard of living.

Then where does the IQ cut off come into play? Pretty much every nation in history got their start from trading resources so I find it suspicious why it "doesn't count" anymore. Even more so, they take the money they make from this industry, so they can fund other projects. Like in Rwanda, the country is capable of building their own smartphones now. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rwanda-telecoms-idUSKBN1WM1TN

Ukraine has a similar level of development to the other former Soviet states, all of which suffered with the collapse of the USSR.

So it's not really genetics then that explains the irregularities in nation development. I'm glad we can agree then.

And just think about this for a second. I don't actually believe the plight of Ukrainians is because they're too "stupid" to fix themselves. Especially in third world countries, every day is a fight for survival. In more developed countries like the West, you don't always have to worry about getting shot just going to the grocery store. Or losing your only Hospital in town to foreign drone strikes. Yet this is reality for people living in constant warzones.

That an idea has been thought of somewhere before doesn't mean we have access to it. This is sort of besides the point.

But what are these "ideas" you are talking about? Again, such knowledge has to be worth billions so I can tell Microsoft or Apple how exactly they should run their businesses going forward.

The Flynn Effect is a limited phenomenon, where IQ rises some amount due to nutrition and sanitation. It's not the only thing affecting IQ, and IQ doesn't need to rise in order for civilization to advance if IQ is already at a sufficient level.

That still doesn't debunk what I said. I even pointed out, most Africans don't even have the luxury of living in the cities or getting good food. Industrialization and development is still an ongoing process that we wont know when they'll be finished with it. But at the same time, African countries continue to make huge advances that should never have been possible.