Libya is now a symbol of the West's decline and the rise of the illiberal civilization-states

submitted by EthnocratArcheofuturist from self.debatealtright

10 years after its fake revolution it's clear that the country is basically being carved up by non-Western actors. Illiberal civilization-states like Russia, Turkey, and the Emirates are dictating the terms. This is a great thing in my opinion. The sooner the liberal West loses its influence the better. Don't forget that Libya has the largest oil reserves in Africa. I would rather those resources go to illiberal actors than liberal ones. These actors also have no problem using the most brutal measures to stop the migration route over there. Europe needs to become an illiberal civilization-state itself if it wants to survive.

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[–]nordmannenLegionnaire 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Gaddafi's death redpilled me.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How?

[–]nordmannenLegionnaire 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anyone who tells you Qaddafi was overthrown because he was "just a really bad guy" is delusional. He challenged international finance and the west made an example of him for it. Libya had almost 150 tons of gold in reserves and sought to break the stranglehold the west has on Africa by establishing a new pan-African currency and selling oil for gold only, excluding the USD from any international purchases of oil from African and potentially Middle Eastern countries. Saddam Hussein also tried something similar in 2000, but with the euro rather than a new African currency. Libya under Qaddafi subsidized marriage and childbirth, went from a literacy rate of 25% to almost 90%, had free electricity, water, and housing, subsidized agricultural and industrial development along with massive public works projects including the largest irrigation system in the world, had no external debt, and was a functional direct democracy (which I'm not a fan of but whatever). I remember when there were airstrikes in Libya and the propaganda machine was in full swing, talking about the usual WMDs and Qaddafi's crimes against his people, and the discomfort of watching news reporters laugh at pictures and reports of him being captured, beaten, sodomized with a knife, and murdered by western-backed "democratic" "rebels". And look at what they have done to Libya now, after all the talks of free and fair elections and a "better future for Libya". They traffic migrants into Europe, they sell people as slaves, they have an ongoing four-sided civil war, and even the field marshal Khalifa Haftar of the LNA is a literal American citizen and CIA asset who lived in Virginia for 20 years and was funded by the CIA to return to Libya and overthrow Qaddafi. People like Qaddafi, who have the charisma and the willpower to realize plans of that magnitude are so rare. Libya will likely never have someone like him again, and their fate is going to return to what it was before Qaddafi: insignificant warring tribes backed by external actors exploiting the country for their own gains. I think the only upside is that it's not a US puppet, but I don't think any of the western powers had much use for Libya anyway.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

France is involved in the libyan game as well. Its a testament to American decline that non us actors are deciding the fate of the middle east increasingly.

It also shows the necessity of a strong military in obtaining geopolitical goals rather than gay EU style soft power

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

France's involvement is minimal.

[–]Nasser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Has the violence in Libya died down much?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its on a ceasefire now, I think for foreseeable future it will stay that way because Turkey, Egypt and Russia have all embedded their own forces with their respective proxies which means any clashes now would result in a regional war that no one would want. Its basicially just North Korea-South Korea-style standstill from now on.